To think that a kiss between Henry VIII and Katherine Parr in the staged wedding at Hampton Court was a bit too much?

[GenevieveHawkings]

There we were watching the re-enactment of the wedding and Henry was just kissing her hand etc - all very modest - and then they went in and had several lingering kisses on the lips in very short succession. Me and my DH were nearly exploding, I'm sure it made other people squirm as much as it did us! It was very out of place and not very authentic and of the time I feel sure. It was a bit YUK really. I suppose they could be a couple in RL...? But really, it was all a bit "get a room".

very true giddy

though better than the humiliations/beheadings etc the others suffered I'm sure

it's not much of a parlour game is it? 'if you had to be one of Henry VIII's wives, which one would you be?'

I don't know, I can see some people going for Anne Boleyn, for the glamour factor. I mean, who wants to think of themselves as Ann of Cleaves or Katherine Parr?

Oh, I don't know. Katherine Parr got it on with Thomas Seymour afterwards, didn't she? And he was a bit sexy iirc.

Katherine Parr was more of a nursemaid than a wife to him, wasn't she? Thomas Parr was a bit sexy, but no real prize in the Good Husband stakes - inappropriate behaviour with his wife's DSD, anyone?

Can you imagine how that would play out on AIBU??

Indeed, it would be fun. Btw, there's incredibly bodice-ripping, jazzed up historical novel about Elizabeth I that paints Thomas as a sexy-bastard type, it was in the library at school (!), but I've no idea what it was called. Ring any bells, anyone?

Sounds familiar but I can't remember a title or author, helpfully.

If I HAD to be one of his wives, I'd probably opt Jane Seymour just to get the agony over with PDQ.

Poor old Anne of Cleves didn't have it easy, though. As well as public humiliation she must have lived in constant fear that the King would change his mind and have her beheaded as well.

Hmmm - don't fancy the way she died, poor love.

I don't think Anne of Cleves was that afraid - apparently she made it public that she was much happier being the king's 'good sister' rather than his wife, so she must have thought she was well out of it and safe.

Tba, unless Henry is being played by Jonathan Rees-Meyer, I am quite happy not being married to him!

He used to grope Katherine Howard in public, so it could have been worse.

Another vote for Anna of Cleves

Katherine Parr was extremely bright and had to talk her way out of being denounced as a heretic. Bloody awful luck to die in childbirth - from a presumed infection a few days later. I'm afraid I regard Anne of Cleves as rather dull. I think Jane Seymour is the really interesting one - totally wet or really cunning? Also v unlucky in the birth department of course....

Another possibility for JS - the tool of her ambitious brothers? Tbh, if you caught Henry's eye, you were pretty much done for. Couldn't exactly say no thanks, your maj, I am your loyal subject but you know, you are a tad older than me and have a nasty habit of ditching your wives...

True, edam.

Goodness ... let's all thank god it's not that way now with Charles.

[boak face]

I am a soppy one, but I honestly think it is so sad that Henry VIII Jane Seymour die the same way as his mother, poor man (for all his faults).

The man killed two of his wives; fair enough, but.. kissing?!? Beyond the pale, frankly...

IIRC didn't some princess (or similarly titled lady) from Denmark say just what edam described? "If I had two heads, one would be at your disposal. But alas I only have one head."

If I HAD to be one of Henry VIII's wives, I would probably choose either Katherine of Aragon or Anne Boleyn. I know they both had a sticky end, but what women they were! Especially back in the masochistic times. Intelligent, fiery, bold...and they both had the king of England tied around their little finger, till they failed to give him a son of course, but that's the way the Tudor cookie crumbled.

I'd be Anne of Cleaves. She got off with a fuckload of lands and rents, plate, jewellry, clothes. All for just slipping away.

And she didn't have to go back to her tyrant of a brother.

She was able to live as an independent woman and call her own shots for the rest of her days, and not have to join a convent, which back then, was pretty amazing.

Poor Katherine Parr! Her mother married her to a 62-year-old man when she was only 14! Then she took her second husband when she was about 16, and he, Lord Lattimer, was only 38.

Poor soul.

The king was courting her before Lord Lattimer was even dead, although he was ill and obviously going to die at the time, and she dared not refuse him for his reputation.

Then, when she finally found love, he wanted her former stepdaughter. He tarried with Elizabeth when poor Katherine was pregnant.

Then she never even lived a fortnight past the birth and, for all history can tell us, her daughter died as a child, too.

It is horrible isn't it? The woman I feel sorriest for is Mary de Bohun. She is the mother of Henry V. She and her sister were obscenely rich heiresses, so she was married off young. She gave birth aged just over twelve, and there are some claims that this was her second pregnancy. Poor child. No wonder she never had any more children!

I actually feel sorry for Henry VIII's mother, Elizabeth of York. After her brothers were murdered in the Tower, her life was in real danger. Her uncle had designs on marrying her to cement his claim to the throne after he'd offed her brothers.

Then she was basically brokered to Henry VII, who had a bitch for a mother and was a big mama's boy. He was also a tight-fisted bastard who basically didn't appreciate her much until after she died of childbed fever after having yet another of his children.

Oh yes, her too.

It is remarkably crap how many women then had a bad time. We end up studying the ones who don't, so it is easy to forget. We look at people like Eleanor de Bohun, who was a battleaxe who had her own ideas about how 'male-dominated' prayers should be approached, and Cecilia of York, who educated her whole (half male) household in the most important points of religion.

I always feel sorry for Jane Grey - apparently a genius, but shackled to a dim man and pushed into the wrong place at the wrong time.

Sorry: I meant to say, we 'should look at people like Eleanor de Bohun'

Lutyens - was Christina de Medici, who made the clever remark about heads, I believe.

Thanks Poledra. I've always loved the quote but can never remember the source!

LRD, agree about Jane Grey. I'm fascinated by her. She was supposedly very intelligent and was in communication with the big brains and thinkers of the time. Enter her power-hungry parents and the corrupt Northumberland and the poor girl was done for. Even then, Mary Tudor didn't want to execute her and would have eventually pardoned her if her stupid father hadn't launched another claim for the throne in her name! Seriously, how dim can you be to put your own daughter's neck on the block!

By the way, LOVING the turn this thread has taken :-D
Who knew there were so many MNers with a fascination for Tudor women!

'I always feel sorry for Jane Grey - apparently a genius, but shackled to a dim man and pushed into the wrong place at the wrong time. '

Jane's sisters had equally sad lives. Her sister Katherine married the Earl of Hertford secretly, without the permission of Queen Elizabeth, who sent Katherine's husband abroad soon after their marriage. Katherine was pregnant, but they were unable to prove the marriage, so her son was ruled illegitimate. Both Katherine and her husband were placed in the Tower for their actions, but Katherine managed to meet him again, and conceive and bear another son.

Furious, Elizabeth separated the pair for good, and Katherine died of TB at the age of only 28, still grieving the separation from her husband.

Although closer in relation, the Greys being the children of an older sister, Katherine Grey's son was passed over in favour of James of Scotland for the throne.

The other sister, Mary, was no beauty and similarly married in secret, a doorman at the court. Elizabeth separated her, too, briefly, then refused to acknowledge the marriage, although Mary, even after her husband's death, forever defiantly signed her name 'Mary Keyes'.

They didn't kiss - in front of children!!!!!!

Call the social services!

expat - interesting; I was under the impression that there were no Greys left when Elizabeth died.

Certainly HVII's will left the throne to Mary's descendants (The Greys) ahead of Margaret's (the Stuarts) although Margaret was older. Not that Henry's will was strictly adhered to at all times of course...!

Am also delighted to see all these fans of Tudor women! Anne Boleyn is a great heroine of mine - the woman kept an English bible in her rooms decades before they were legal and I have a most unchristian respect for her revenge against Wolsey for blocking her marriage with Henry Percy.

Re the show - I was there last Summer. Didn't think there was anything wrong with it myself. Really very pedestrian compared to real Tudor behaviour, although perhaps the actors have changed.