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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To accuse my DD's school of neglect?

83 replies

ssflower · 30/07/2010 14:57

Hi, am a MN virgin so please bear with me! On collecting my DD from school (reception full day) without all the detail, she was extremely distressed and I immediately knew why (very strong vile smell from classroom). On taking her to the toilet and talking with her I realised she had been in her very soiled undergarments from mid-morning. The schools immediate response was one of defense and denial(?) and to cut a very long, ongoing incident short I have complained - am now beginning to have doubts as I am being blocked at all levels and am finding it so hard. Am I over reacting?

OP posts:

fearnelinen · 30/07/2010 15:01

Oh dear that's not a good start to full time school at all is it?
YANBU but you are being fairly short sighted, if you want my advice, change school before she gets really settled. This has little chance of ending well for you LO. Is DD your first?

Original poster

ssflower · 30/07/2010 15:04

Thanks for that, am considering changing schools but have DS there as well. What is LO - sorry said i was new!!

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LIZS · 30/07/2010 15:06

oh dear. Whereabouts are you that she is already at school ? Accidents happen but it would be nice to think they would notice and help her change discreetly but she isn't the first or last I'm afraid. Did she admit it to anyone (I know ds didn't when it happened to him) ?

ginnybag · 30/07/2010 15:07

Little one...

Had she told the teacher? It's a whole different thing if she had than if she hadn't although I would hope the teacher would have spotted the smell!

Original poster

ssflower · 30/07/2010 15:12

We aren't at school now, this happened towards end of June, she didn't tell anyone but to be honest it was impossible to miss - it was visible on her legs and dress as well as the smell, other children commented about the smell apparently. It has been the schools lack of care, concern, compassion etc that has really upset us.

OP posts:

julybutterfly · 30/07/2010 15:12

How do you know she'd been in them since mid morning? Maybe she'd only just done it and they hadn't noticed? If you could smell it immediately in the classroom then I'd assume the teacher would have done.

I'm not saying it didn't happen like you said but those are things you need to think about before going in with all guns blazing

Original poster

ssflower · 30/07/2010 15:15

A morning outing which gave me no doubt as to the time and the fact that she needed soaking etc. Believe me i have given so much thought to this but feel compelled to do something.

OP posts:

curlymama · 30/07/2010 15:17

You are not over reacting. At the very least, the school could have called you to come and sort your daughter out if they weren't willing to do it. I can understand that teachers do not think it's their job to deal with this sort of thing, but for them to ignore a child in this situation is just inhumane imho.

My ds had a simelar accident when he first started school, despite it not happening for years previously, schools should realise that for some children it will happen, especially when everything is so new to them. There should be a policy on how to deal with it. Have you asked if your school has one? My ds was lucky that he had a lovely reception teacher, who despite not being too impressed at having to deal with my child's poo, would not in a million years have left any human being like that.

OrmRenewed · 30/07/2010 15:18

Poor little girl . I think the teacher and TA were a little neglectful, yes.

Original poster

ssflower · 30/07/2010 15:22

I feel so angry and let down by those i should be able to trust with my children - and the complaints procedure sucks!

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DinahRod · 30/07/2010 15:23

Poor dd, going to the toilet at 'big' school is exactly the sort of thing the settling in sessions are for.

What did the school say in response? Did they apologise? Do you have any concerns re older dc at the school?

abirdinthehand · 30/07/2010 15:25

I think it sounds neglectful, yes. Small children DO wee, poo and vomit, and a primary school - expecially reception - should be fully able to handle it appropriately and have baby wipes and some random spare bits of uniform floating about as well.

If it was my ds I'd be very very angry.

Original poster

ssflower · 30/07/2010 15:28

The school have closed ranks, said nothing but the head has informed me he is satisfied there was no smell - hence the various complaints. Yes i have huge concerns for older dc as i am now a complaining parent.

OP posts:

Original poster

ssflower · 30/07/2010 15:33

Thanks everyone - i didnt realise this would be so helpful. It is consuming me completely and it is good to "offload". Due to various complications we have involved Ofsted, Dept of Education and GTC so i am now all guns blazing and hoping i havent made a mistake

OP posts:

curlymama · 30/07/2010 15:39

Good on you for involving all the other agencies. I would try not to worry too much about your older dc at the school, any decent teacher wil not take these things out on the children. And at least they know that if they did, you would be willing to complain to the highest level about it. You have done the right thing, and I hope it all goes well for you. Hopefully now that you have made your feelings clear, no other child will find themselves in the same situation at that school.

Original poster

ssflower · 30/07/2010 15:41

Thank you so much curlymama and all of you. I am so pleased i "talked"!

OP posts:

DinahRod · 30/07/2010 15:45

have nursing baby so sorry for typos/ succinctness of reply

3 options as far as I see it:

Lost faith in school and seek alternative asap for September for both dcs - will mean upheaval for ds but if you have any other concerns re his school, now would be the time
assume that because you have complained they will be much more vigilant - and no doubt so will you given poor dd's experience
write a letter to both the class teacher (copied to the head teacher) indicating how distressing it was for dd, she is now frightened/having nightmares (or whatever applies) about starting school and how you would warmly welcome vigilance where dd is concerned to help her settle in when she starts in September. Normally this is a given for any new starter but given what happened on the day which is all about reassurance, you cant take that for granted!

You could make it more formal and officious but I would give them a chance to make things right in the first instance.

Hope dd is ok now.

gingernutlover · 30/07/2010 15:45

not sure why i never sawe this before as I would have responded.

I am a reception teacher. No, strictly speaking it is not really my "job" to mop up poo and wee but occasionally needs must because small children do still have accidents so it becomes something I have to do occasionally. And all schools must have a policy on how accidents are handled.

Assuming I could smell something I or my TA would have wandered round the room doing the "sniff test" and gently removed the child to help them change. To leave a child in this state is totally unnacceptable and negelectful. You have every right to complain

I would imagine the problem you are going to have is that they will deny they knew about your daughters predicament because she didnt tell them. You cannot prove they knew (even if you jolly well know they could have smelled it in the next room!)

Teachers like this are one of the reasons I am absolutely terrified that my dd starts school in september

DinahRod · 30/07/2010 15:48

Sorry, x posted. See my no 3 is irrelevant but no 2 is!

abirdinthehand · 30/07/2010 15:48

I know, it's enough to make you want to home ed.

cazzybabs · 30/07/2010 15:52

I have a child in my class who would not admit they had an accident...I can't force them to get unchanged....it took an hour and half to persuade them

gingernutlover · 30/07/2010 15:56

cazzybabs, yes I have had those too would you not call the parents before an hour and a half? Or maybe they couldn't come?

Was your daughter offered the chance to get changed ssflower I cant see that anywhere in your posts but suspect not.

mamadoc · 30/07/2010 16:00

I really hope it works out for you but I do feel afraid that if you have to take it so far to get them to see sense it doesn't bode well. Why they refuse to admit any fault I have no idea but it all gets entrenched and unpleasant and leads to a loss of trust. A simple apology would fix things so much more easily.

My friend had similar with her DD who had a wee accident on her 1st day. School claimed they didn't notice despite the puddle under her chair and soaked clothing. She was sitting there soaked and afraid to move when friend came to collect. The school handled it so badly I thought. The head sent letters saying how her excellent staff could never make an error and bizzarely going on about the quality of the new school building
Eventually it led to friend losing all trust and starting her DD in Y1 at another school.

In my line of work it is accepted that an apology is not an admission of guilt (you were hardly going to sue anyway) and we are encouraged to apologise for errors that it is inevitable will sometimes happen. If you don't say sorry it will lead to escalating complaints and bad feeling. Honesty is always the best policy.

cazzybabs · 30/07/2010 16:05

I coud have phoned the parents but they both work...it is very hard to make the right call...eventually we did chnage the child.

Colliecross · 30/07/2010 16:05

I encountered this at nursery. One -dirty- -lazy- -cow- nursery worker would leave any number of babies/children in a filthy mess rather than change them.
She always very strongly denied all knowledge and how to prove it? Very difficult so good luck.

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