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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To accuse my DD's school of neglect?

83 replies

ssflower · 30/07/2010 14:57

Hi, am a MN virgin so please bear with me! On collecting my DD from school (reception full day) without all the detail, she was extremely distressed and I immediately knew why (very strong vile smell from classroom). On taking her to the toilet and talking with her I realised she had been in her very soiled undergarments from mid-morning. The schools immediate response was one of defense and denial(?) and to cut a very long, ongoing incident short I have complained - am now beginning to have doubts as I am being blocked at all levels and am finding it so hard. Am I over reacting?

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tethersend · 30/07/2010 16:06

Teachers have a legal responsibilty to act in loco parentis, or as a reasonably prudent parent.

If the situation was switched and a child came in and told the teacher that a parent had left them sat in faeces for most of the day, the teacher would have to inform the CP officer, who would decide whether or not to inform SS.

I don't think you should let this go- they wouldn't if the situation was reversed.

KarenHL · 30/07/2010 16:17

A year or so ago I was helping at a holiday club and one of the children had a v.visible wet patch - absolutely soaked. I was told by the trained 'professionals' (childminders and teachers) present to do 'nothing'. Poor child was miserable for the rest of the session and I wasn't even allowed to give her a hug of comfort (which she asked for) due to child safety policy.

I know it's not the same (this child was a little older for a start, and I think she sat on someone elses' spillage), but I discussed this recently with a friend who does full-time child care with children of different ages. She told me to bear in mind "no-one will ever look after your child as well as you, no matter how good their intention or training". That rather put me on the back foot. I must admit if it was me, I would be tempted to pull DD out of school, but if you're happy with every other aspect there and your DD isn't too traumatised it might make sense to stay (presuming classes/teachers change each year).

Personally, I home educate and this is working well for us (and I know, that doesn't mean it will for everyone - many kids/familes are v.happy with school). It might be worth considering, even just as a temporary 'option'. If interested, google 'education otherwise', who have lots of info.

sapphireblue · 30/07/2010 16:58

your poor DD. I would be absolutely fuming in your situation and think you have definitely done the righ tthing in persuing a complaint. As someone else pointed out, if you as a parent had left your child in soiled underwear/clothes all day you would be in deep trouble. I can't believe a teacher could be so uncaring and downright neglectful........why on earth do you become a reception teacher if you aren't prepared to deal with inevitable accidents?

fearnelinen · 30/07/2010 21:08

Just popped back into this. ssflower I really feel for you as your mind must be racing as to what else the staff there fail to notice. As someone has said, this is almost impossible to prove.

My reason for the first, rather succint comment about changing schools is simply down to my own experience. DS had issues at his infant school, I complained and everyone closed ranks around me, I believed the gumpf I was told but was still unsure so I volunteered as a helper for a day a week. It was awful, not one adult spoke to me (I thought I had left the playground behind ) and when I spoke to the head regarding DS's problems making friends, she told me she had watched him the previous day playing football with all his new mates. I had been there that day and had to watch as he had spent the lunch hour on his own on a bench . She was bare faced lying to me. I didn't know which way to turn and felt like it was too much hassle for him and we stuck with it. 6 awful years later he is in a brilliant place personally now .

When DD came to school age, I was a lot wiser and on the ball and got her into a school that I am completely happy with. In fact, she has had a couple of accidents of the smelly nature, and the TA has just given me a little bag with soiled clothes in, and a note requesting their spare clothes back, washed. It is absolutely within their remit. I agree children need to be toilet trained when they start school, but you have to allow for the fact that small children have accidents, particularily when in new surroundings and around unfamilliar adults.

Seriously, try to change schools, it would have been better all round for us if we had. It's taken me years to shake off the reputation as a 'difficult mum'. I've recently starting working very closely with the sister school and learnt that DS actually came to that school with that label on him. Abhorrent. (sp?)

LynetteScavo · 30/07/2010 21:17

Just to be clear, how long has your DD been at school? Did she start last September?

The time my DS soiled himself in reception I was called to come and change him. The time DD soiled herself in reception, the school changed her.

So I find this very bizarre indeed. So the teacher, TA, and lunchtime supervisor all chose to ignore this? I really couldn't send my child to a school where they were treated like this.

Who exactly have you complained to?

ssflower · 30/07/2010 22:06

Fearnelinen your experience sounds dreadful, hope you have shaken off your difficult mum label. I will now have to play the waiting game which i have never found easy. I have to believe that somewhere out there someone will support and help me and my family.

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SaggyHairyArse · 30/07/2010 22:15

My eldest used to have constipation and was often in this predicament and was left in his soiled clothes. After four terms I changed his school, funnily enough his consipation cleared up soon after...If they don't help a child who has soiled their own clothes, what else do they ignore???

BeerTricksPotter · 30/07/2010 22:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

NonnoMum · 30/07/2010 22:19

I feel for your daughter. I don't know what the best thing to do is. If you change school, will she think the reason is due to her toilet habits? I do know that many schools will phone for a parent for a soiling incident.
It may be worth giving the school the benefit of the doubt but go with your gut instinct.
My 4 year old nephew soiled himself at my house, but it took about an hour of gentle coaxing for him to admit to it/visit loo. I felt like I couldn't physically handle him unless he 'allowed' me to. It was only when my 2 year old grabbed the back of his trousers and stuck her nose down there with the cry of "You dun a poo" that he eventually let me change him.
But my sense of smell was right all along.
Don't want to excuse the teachers but reception classes can be a bit whiffy.

ssflower · 30/07/2010 22:25

My gut instinct is to move her as not only was teacher and TA present all afternoon but so was Chair of governors, hence the complete lock down relating to my complaints.The whole think is appalling and ultimately my 5yr old daughters welfare seems to have been overlooked.

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laweaselmys · 30/07/2010 22:36

I haven't read the thread (sorry post and dash) but if nobody else has said it, from working with reception kids, it's really really common for them to have accidents (even poo ones) and not tell anyone!

It's all just very exciting and they don't notice they need to go till it's too late... so don't worry about that aspect.

I hope you get an acceptable answer as to why she wasn't changed more quickly.

Stephief · 30/07/2010 22:37

Hi,

You were right to complain, it doesnt always mean there will be any further issues at school though.

I have made many complaints about my sons school, to the head and to other agencies, but I still always got on well with the staff, and my son has never suffered for it, if anything he gets treated better as they know I will voice my concerns when I have them!

ssflower · 30/07/2010 22:42

StephieF, glad to hear you have had a positive experience after complaining - i live in hope!!Instinct tells me i am complaining about the wrong people.

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pigletmania · 30/07/2010 22:50

Yes the staff were being very neglectful, I used to work as a community access worker for people with LD, I would never leave our service users in that state, and I would not expect the school to. They still have a duty of care, especially as your dd so young still and they can have accidents. At the very least, I would expect them to phone me up so that I could clean her up myself. Its undignified and horrible for her. Poor thing. I remember at Primary school there used to be a welfare officer that used to do that if we had an accident.

ssflower · 30/07/2010 22:59

Well hopefully one of the other agencies will prove useful and worthwhile otherwise we are thinking of what could be next? Any suggestions??

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KarmaAngel · 31/07/2010 00:40

Absolutely awful, your poor dd. My dd1 had numerous accidents of both the wee and poo varieties right through nursery, reception and year 1. The teachers and TA's were wonderful Just changed her, cleaned her up and handed me a plastic bag with her clothes in. It doesn't bode well for your dds future years at the school. I honestly would just change her school.

KristinaM · 31/07/2010 00:50

at my childrens school the TA takes the child to get changed and the janitor comes in to mop up

there is a bag of spare school uniform for this purpose or they can wear their gym shorts

i thought this was routine everywhere. they cant leave a child in soiled clothing all day

ssflower · 01/08/2010 20:02

Sorry to have disappeared, this is my first time of getting online since Friday night - nosey children etc! Just wanted to say thanks to all that posted their comments they have truly helped; i do not feel so doubtful and alone.

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ssflower · 01/08/2010 21:23

or maybe i do!!

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BootyMum · 03/08/2010 16:41

Unfortunately not all teachers are kind and considerate. I remember all too well a particularly nasty teacher I had when I was five who was sarcastic to the children and seemed to enjoy humiliating them. This led to little classmates of mine being I think too afraid to raise a hand to ask to go to the toilet, perhaps because they would have been told that they should have gone at their break time? Thus there were accidents which occurred and the teacher was quite unpleasant about it. Nasty cow. Some adults seem to enjoy taunting vulnerable children. I hope this is not the case in your DD's case but I agree with the other posters who say the teacher and school were unreasonable and did not act with a duty of care towards your daughter. So not your child's fault, she may have been too embarrassed to ask to go to the toilet or may have become so absorbed in what she was doing that she forgot to go until it was too late. If the school are stonewalling you now I don't feel it bodes well. I think it is good for your daughter to see that you are standing up for her and take her trauma free transition to a school with a caring ethos seriously. Good luck with complaining although I feel you may have to consider moving your daughter to another teacher or school...

LucyLouLou · 03/08/2010 16:51

Haven't had chance to read through all responses, but I really want to give you and your DD a big hug. So sorry you have had to go through this. You are totally in the right IMO. Good luck with everything .

ledodgy · 03/08/2010 16:55

When my friend's child had an accident in reception (poo) the teacher rang my friend and asked her if they were ok to shower him. They did just that and put him in a clean uniform. They have a duty of care at least to ring the parents if they choose not to change her themselves.

katiestar · 03/08/2010 17:06

My DDs have had poo accidents at schoola nd they have always helped them to get changed into something clean.It is definitely neglect and any teacher who says mopping poo is not her job should perhaps find out outr what being in l;oco parentis actually mean and find out about some of the less savoury aspects of working withg children before deciding on a career in teaching.

BoneyBackJefferson · 03/08/2010 18:47

loco parentis,

Latin for "in the place of a parent" or "instead of a parent,"[1] refers to the legal responsibility of a person or organization to take on some of the functions and responsibilities of a parent.

Teachers however DO NOT act in loco parentis, they have a DUTY OF CARE.

duty of care

a requirement that a person act toward others and the public with watchfulness, attention, caution and prudence that a reasonable person in the circumstances would.

katiestar · 03/08/2010 19:25

On previous threads i think links have been provided to show that schools are in loco parentis.In any case the teacher in thos case has obviously not exercised areasonable duty of care

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