to think that the NICE guidelines on obesity and pregnancy are just yet another way of pissing off pregnant women?

[PerfectDromedary]

I'm 9 weeks today, and trying to enjoy a first, very much longed-for pregnancy. But as far as I can work out, NICE is out to get me - and the 40% of pregnant women who are overweight/obese when they conceive.

Am I being unreasonable to think that the medical profession has just put on their judgy pants about yet another aspect of women's behaviour while pregnant? It seems highly unlikely that going on a diet while pregnant is a good idea - plus, if I don't have something in my stomach at all times, I'm quite likely to throw up...

(NB I may also be a little bit hormonal. But seriously, ffs.)

I know it's a different subject but can anyone tell me what the size of my feet had to do with it when ds was on his way? It was a rush job because of complications and 1st child in my innocence I thought I was getting a pair of slippers ha ha .

Crikey - never heard of them measuring your feet!

Could it have been something to do with checking for oedema?

Haven't read the whole thread but I was about one stone overweight when I conceived -BMI 27 I think? - and was highly concerned regarding the research on weight/pregnancy pre-NICE guidelines.

I had perfect blood pressure, blood counts and pulse rate throughout pregnancy and remained fit and healthy.

I assumed that maybe this was because I eat a clean, healthy diet and take a decent amount of exercise. I just eat too much food.

The difficulty with statistics related to weight is one person who's tubby may be so because they consider pasties to be a food group, another may be a slobby couch potato, a third may be someone who has gained weight due to previous heavy medication, a fourth due to depression/self-esteem etc... The overweight (whether male or female) are not a homogenous group in terms of medical history or lifestyle and to suggest that 'overweight' is at 'epidemic' level implies it is always incontrovertibly unhealthy to be overweight. Not so. It's lies, lies and damned statistics.

Let's all ignore the meedja and do what we can to be healthy before and during pregnancy, as most of us who actively plan pregnancies do anyway (even if we don't achieve our aims). QED.

I agree about the man stuff Dromedary, having recently had a bit of a scare being put at high risk of chromosomal abnormalities.

Now, we know that maternal age increases the risk of having children with chromosomal abnormalities. However, it is only very recently that anyone has bothered to look at paternal age and CAs, and guess what - risk increased with older fathers too.

Babies with older mothers are also more likely to have older fathers, but the impact of paternal age has not been factored in to risk calculations.

My partner is a good few years younger than me, so there is quite the chance that my risk level should be lower than that given, and that therefore I might not have felt the need to risk a CVS.

Fortunately everything was fine, but it goes to show, that for those of us who look a little beyond the guidance and info given out to pregnant women, there is often a more complex or different story to be told.

That is why I try to avoid getting judgy about intelligent women raising questions about the usefulness of advice given out.

lilyliz there is apparently a correlation between the size of your feet and the size of your pelvis.

I think what fucks me off about the media reporting of this, is that yet again I have gone in to work and had a comment made about every thing I ate today (some celery, 2 apples and some ham salad sarnies on wholemeal, for the record - no cake, crisps or biscuits) - "you mustn't eat for two you know, they said so on the telly" etc etc.

I am 5ft2, I am 36weeks pg. I weighed 8st6 when I got pg, I now weigh 10st6.

Every single person that has made those comments to me today has also at some other point in time commented on how little weight I have put on, how it's all bump, how you can't tell I'm pg from the back etc etc.

This is why it feels like it's a big stick to beat women with, because every random fucker feels the need to comment on your appearance, when you are pg you are public property.

YANBU. Although it is important to eat well especially when pregnant, I think that it's ridiculous to urge women to start dieting when breast feeding. All I craved was cake. It was one of my biggest pleasures in life since I could no longer go out on the town, drink or do anything remotely naughty, just sit on the couch feeding dd.
Also when pregnant I RELISHED not being on a diet for a change. It was bad enough giving up brie and wine.

Nanny state stating the bloody obvious again.

There seems to be some disconnect between what the NICE report says and what people think it says.

It is here.

This report, like others by NICE, is straight forward to read and this one is, relatively, short.

It does not advise weight loss during pregnancy but gives guidance about weight management before, during and after.

It lays out the risks associated with being overweight or obese (clearly defined and separated terms) and the best strategies to lose the 5% of weight which would reduce the risks.

If someone would like to be clear what they find offensive in the report, perhaps with page numbers, then this discussion may become easier.

DBennett

I had no problems with the guidance in principle: I have just read your link. I found the style of the entire document nauseating to be honest.

It doesn't really lay out the risks, it skirts around the risks and spends a good deal of time dealing in suppositions e.g.:

"However, after having a child, many mothers find it difficult to eat a healthy diet and take regular exercise (Hewison and Dowswell 1994). It may be because women receive little or no advice on weight management after childbirth."

Indeed it "may". It may also be because they are tired and have little time for exercise. This is also covered as a "point".

Seems like a lot of stating-the-bleeding-obvious to me.

I also think they could have stuck to simple, clear guidance that respects women as individuals e.g.

Ask women if they are concerned about their weight and if they would like support.

If they say yes, give it.
If no, shut your mouth unless it's clinically necessary due to risks related to that individual mother (e.g. raised blood pressure)

End of story. Then they can wang on about effective weight management all they want. The reality is most of us know it, we find it hard to do and in the seven minutes or so a midwife has, she's not going to break a lifetime of habits that have been too hard for the woman trying to be slim to break.

"It may be because women receive little or no advice on weight management after childbirth."

this illustrates the point perfectly, we're not fricking idiots, we know about weight management! It's just that sometimes real life is not quite that simple.

They can't win. Whatever they say and however they say it somebody will find a way to make it look offensive, pointless or indeed stating the bleeding obvious.

It can't be that obvious though - I didn't realise the correlations between obesity and pre eclampsia for instance until I saw the guy on the telly.

Either they say 'women! lose weight!' and get pasted for it, or they use polite and non-coercive language and get slated for 'skirting around it'.

@ arses

You mean like on page 14:

"Use the 6?8-week postnatal check as an opportunity to discuss the woman?s weight. Ask those who are overweight, obese or who have concerns about their weight if they would like any further advice and support now ? or later. If they say they would like help later, they should be asked whether they would like to make an appointment within the next 6 months for advice and support."

I started a thread about this earlier in Pregnancy as the news article unsettled me and made me feel very guilty for being overweight.

I am 13+4 weeks and I have had to eat each hour to keep the nausea at bay and haven't always been able to manage healthy foods and so have put on 7 lbs.

I put on about 1 1/2 stone before getting pg and was a size 14-16, before that I was a size 12 for over 2 years due to severe anxiety and panic (I couldn't work for over a year because of it). Previously to the anxiety I was a size 14 which is a natural size for me (and yes that is eating sensibly), and I was only able to maintain a size 12 by being too ill to eat.

I can't help that I am one of those women that isn't naturally slim and I would have to work incredibley hard to be a smaller size (a size 10 would be impossible for me).

I have inherited big boobs and big hips, and as documented by health professionals, these attributes usually come along with a bigger tummy too (I tick that box also). Thanks to the media's constant focus on women's size/weight/looks I have been aware I am "big" since I was about 11 and I have hated my body since then and will probably always do so.

I have lost weight and gained weight at various times in my life and I can never remember eating and not feeling guilty. I know I am rambling, but my point is pregnancy is stressful, tiring and not an easy thing to go through without having even more guilt thrown at you. NICE are trying to do the right thing, but the media have ruined most women's self esteem already and so the message of these guidelines is not going to get through properly.

I truly, truly wish I could be slim and toned and the perfect bmi (mine is 27ish at the mo), but it won't ever happen, I have tried for years and to be honest I'm sick of hearing about it all, I'm sick of the pressure.

So no, yanbu op, it's the constant drip, drip, drip of criticism that makes us want to tell these people to piss off and let us get on with life our own way (and I don't mean by troughing pizza every night).

Sorry for the essay and for not being very eloquent.

@Rocklover & BrightLightBrightLight

The report says just that.

Don't diet during pregnancy.
Don't rush to lose baby weight.

It's the media reporting of the issue which is terrible, not the report.

Which is why I posted the link to it.

brighlight - sorry but that is bollocks. I have a 2 month old (plus a 14, 4 and 3 year old) am on my own all day till 7 and manage to cook and eat relatively healthily, I am a bit overweight at the mo. and am not naturally slim but eating shit all day (as I did after no.3 ) made me fat.

But nothing to do with time more because I was disorganised. THis time I planned it better and because we are so skint can't afford readymeals as a result I plan every week our food and have done all pregancy thus less weight gain.

It's so easy to reach for the fatty food and blame the baby.

It's very good that you can do that clouddragon (not being patronising, I mean it), but we are all different and putting someone else down for not feeling up to it is rather unhelpful and just a bit spiteful.

Each person copes differently after giving birth and we should respect that instead of criticising.

Fwiw brightlight, I was a mess after dd was born and I put on weight before I began to lose it due to adjusting to life with baby, so I know just what you mean.

Nice man, common sense, waste of money gp's and midwives are perfectly capable of talking to pregnant women? and will someone please bother the men folk instead of throwing all these lovely 'agency' people at weighing kids and 'advising' women

rocklover - your right and I apologise.

They say healthy eating not dieting, for good reason.

Obesity predisposes women to other issues in pregnancy

Diabetes
More likely to have a c section with complications such as wounds reopening.
Pre-eclampsia/ high blood pressure.

Healthy eating will ensure the baby recieves all the vital nutrients babies need for good growth and brain development.

I was warned not to put too much weight on by eating for 2 - I put on 4.5 stone and had an EMCS, dd2 - 4 stone followed by EMCS. Big babies although no diabetes.

I don't agree with all NICE guidelines however, it isn't wise (as an obese mother and health professional) to ignore the advice. It isn't scare tactics or that people are 'out to get you!'

BLBL it takes no time to microwave veg / jacket potato/ packet pasta and sauce etc. or to make a casserole and sling it in when a newborn is asleep

How long does it take to do stirfry??

I hope I didn't offend clouddragon, it's just that I know where BL was coming from. I felt pretty shit after dd was born and had little to no support from my now exh and therefore was not as organised as I wanted to be.

This time round I hope to be a bit more like your good self.

"How long does it take to do stirfry??"

If you count time spent washing and chopping vegetables....

no offence, far more from me coming across as a smug git. I was pretty low after ds2 and that's when I piled it on so should know better than to sound so self-rightgeous

its about 1 pound to get preprepped which does 2 adults, chicken 5 pound but could do dinner and lunch sandwiches.

New babies sleep usually about 45 mins at a time and it won't hurt them to not be picked up for a few minutes - it happens with all babies that aren't first ones and is normal. I visited someone with 8 children and pg with number 9 today and she still manages to cook meals etc.