to think that the NICE guidelines on obesity and pregnancy are just yet another way of pissing off pregnant women?

[PerfectDromedary]

I'm 9 weeks today, and trying to enjoy a first, very much longed-for pregnancy. But as far as I can work out, NICE is out to get me - and the 40% of pregnant women who are overweight/obese when they conceive.

Am I being unreasonable to think that the medical profession has just put on their judgy pants about yet another aspect of women's behaviour while pregnant? It seems highly unlikely that going on a diet while pregnant is a good idea - plus, if I don't have something in my stomach at all times, I'm quite likely to throw up...

(NB I may also be a little bit hormonal. But seriously, ffs.)

altinkum you are not making much sense. And I don't mean that in a 'I disagree with your position' sort of way, rather 'I have no idea what you are talking about'.

I have yet to meet a feminist that sets out to degrade women...

A word of warning to the OP and others who've mentioned eating sweets to ward off morning sickness.

I did this and my baby was over 10 lb at birth and his blood sugars were dangerously low in the days after birth, as he'd been getting way too much sugar from me, and he had to go to special care with the very tiny babies. My sugar consumption had started pushing me into pregnancy diabetes and this had made him much bigger than he should have been, genetically. He's been dropping 5-10 percentiles at every weigh in since.

Will definitely be avoiding sugar in my next pregnancy, and I wasn't even worried before as I was thin to start with, so these health recommendations AREN'T just targeting the overweight.

I haven't got time to read the thread so apologies for any repetition.

I think all overweight/obese pregnant (or not pregnant!) women know that it isn't healthy to be overweight. I also think that berating a pregnant woman for being overweight is completely pointless........the ship has already sailed.........what are they suggesting? That anyone who gets pregnant with a BMI over 30 should not be allowed to contiue with their pregnancy?

My BMI at booking with DD2 was 36. I knew it was too high.....I'm not stupid, I know what overweight looks like (and it's attached to my arse!). I was more than happy to jump through the hoops with an extra scan and a GTT (all clear and no problems btw). What I would really object to would be my weight being commented on at every appointment and being made to feel like I was in some way an unfit mother before my child was even born.

You should just be advised to eat a healthy balanced diet throughout your pregnancy and beyond at your booking appt., and offered help from a health care professional if you don't understand what that means. Then it shouldn't be mentioned again.

"there is a level of misogyny in the way that women's health advice is often delivered."

I agree with this. And also specifically antenatal health care; so often a reasoned position is trumped by a healthcarer implying that you are putting your baby at risk if you don't INSTANTLY fall in line.

"dispel, to get rid of the opinion/view of your mind"

Dispel doesn't mean that! It just means to disperse or get rid of. So your original quote means:

"what are your issues scorpette, what do your get rid of about the way this article is written?"

Which as you can see, doesn't make sense. I'm confused too!

sapphire, isn't that pretty much what already happens though. ie lots of overweight women do get pg, it isn't a huge deal, nobody berates them for it.

I don't see anything in NICEs findings to suggest that berating women is a good idea or would even help their unborn babies.

But talking about it openly and saying 'it really isn't ideal to be overweight and getting pg' is a way of educating all the many millions of women who aren't yet pg and who have time to change their lifestyles etc.

I don't swallow the 'women aren't stupid' line. Women are as stupid as the general population - and looking at the stats, lots of people don't know the most basic stuff.

If you already know it, then the advice isn't aimed at you.

Aye.

The book I have from the gvt regarding pregnancy and birth is roughly 80% common sense and common knowlege, and 20% new stuff that well informed women need to know.

But many, many women having kids are not well informed. I don't take it as an insult to my intelligence that there are two pages in there politely and gently suggesting that smoking isn't the best thing to be doing when pg, and offering support to quit etc.

For thousands of women, that advice is pertinent and helpful. To me, it's irrelevant. So I skip it.

Because there isn't an equivalent concentration on men's health issues? Has anyone seen guidelines recently that advise men to try and concieve before they're 35, because the health of their sperm goes down? There have been some valiant efforts to talk about prostate cancer, but it gets nowhere near the amount of screening/discussion as breast cancer.

Lots of people feel that the NHS (and public) focus on breast cancer screening is sexist against men. More women get lung cancer than breast cancer (I think??). But the campaigns don't exist on nearly the same level for non-gendered or 'mens' cancers.

Is this lumped in with the idea that the NHS thinks women are stupid? I'm confused.

Are you drunk altinkum? Just asking.

I agree in general though. Here in urban central Scotland it's men who have the appalling life stats - in some parts, they have a lower life expectancy then some third world countries. It's the usual suspects to blame - drink, drugs, bad diet.

This is on the news all the time - barely a week goes by without some reference to it.

I don't see it as saying that men are stupid. The men in my family aren't at risk of premature death through pie consumption. But the stats are the stats.

Depends on how you read it - and I don't want to derail this too much into pet feminist rant...

Women's bodies are regarded as public property: something to be legislated about or publically shamed into different shapes (NICE makes the very good point that women's health is equally put at risk by crash-dieting post-pregnancy).

Men are not subjected to this. Sometimes, in the case of lack of education about cancer, this is a Very Bad Thing.

And, Altinkum, I have seen guidelines about sperm health. But when did you last see a "shocker" headline about men's reproductive health? While there's one a week for women, at least. (slight exaggeration)

I think what this guidance fails to address is why overweight/obese woman are at higher risk.

Is it because being overweight/obese causes medical problems in pregnancy? Or is it also because overweight or obese women are more likely to be poor, undereducated or from marginalised groups which always have riskier pregnancies? Both.

It's not just a question of individual behaviour - we live in a divisive, unequal society. And neither NICE nor the government dare wrap their heads around that. Much easier to blame the women...

I am about 5 stone overweight and nobody even mentioned it when I was pregnant. I was booked into a MLU and weighed only once. And it is unhealthy to "eat for two"; whether you like that fact or not does not make it wrong - and who's job is it to make you aware of this if it's not your midwifes ?

YAB completely U.

Well as you've said, it's the media to blame. Of course the DM etc have an anti-woman agenda, they are vile sexist rags and unworthy of our attention.

But simply finding out medical facts cannot be sexist. If it is risky to be overweight in pregnancy then that's just how it is - men can't get pregnant, so in that sense they can never be subjected to the same advice, although they can be endlessly advised by other studies such as the one a few weeks ago that highlighted life expectancy etc.

I'm pg just now as you know, and on an irrational lever it pisses me off no end that I have to watch what I eat, can't get drunk, can't take sleeping tabs etc while my DP could if he wanted to do all of the above.

But rationally, it's what I signed up to when I got pg. I'm the 'mothership' amn't it - it's just the fact of the matter. I don't love it but it's for a great reason and it'll be over soon (thank f*ck)!

PerfectDromedery - It's because the Mail and the Express exist by preying on womens insecurities and anxieties in order to make money.

Men are not as anxious about these things so you can't sell papers to them on the back of health stories.

I don't think the Mail is deliberately misogynist. Just extraordinarily venal and mercenary.

Where's Claig when you need her? She thinks the Daily Mail breaks important health stories that the 'mainstream' media are hiding. She also thinks that Communism was a capitalist plot mind....

ATM I am 17 weeks into my 2nd pgcy and was a bit heavier than I'd like to be when I found out I was pregnant (those few pounds had arrived while pregnant - I checked!). I have so little energy, but DH keeps reminding me it was the same in my last pgcy. I'm not huge, and from what others say am only showing a little (comments seem to be a v.embarassed 'are you, or aren't you?' in case they're wrong).

I am not going to let my weight bother me. I sometimes worried about it during my last pgcy, although my MW & GP were not fussed at all, and by the time I left hospital, I weighed significantly less than before I got pregnant. I still weigh less than I did at the start of my last pregnancy. Despite nibbling a slice of home-made cake as a snack once a day I didn't pack the weight back on (I think that was down to bfing). I needed the energy and unfortunately I don't have the option of high-fibre nibbles as I'm on a hospital-recommended low fibre diet for IBS. I don't normally eat cake every day, just when I was bfing! Made DH's colleagues very happy as he took a fair bit into work.

For me, eating what I can, when I can, with the occasional treat does mean I will gradually put on some weight (but hey, a baby is growing) and from past experience as I'm eating pretty much as normal (although with much less wine, so my calorie intake is less). I found the biggest problem for me is drinking enough water. It's not so long ago I couldn't keep anything down, so I'm not going to let anyone successfully have a go when I'm just trying to keep myself and bump healthy.

I presume NICE are concerned as I think they just want people to understand that being v.overweight can make complications more likely, although I don't know anyone who has been told their complications are due to their weight.

Oh eek, just realised I posted about weighing less when I left hospital than before pgcy. Before anyone panics or celebrates, we were there for 9 days and the diet I need could not be catered for all of the time, but didn't starve! Plus incredibly stressed due to being there for 9 days, and DD being in SCBU for 2-3 of those (can't remember exactly, things a bit hazy from then). In that time recovered from EMCS, got v.stressed, learnt how to express v.fast and spent lots of time going up and down stairs between unit and SCBU. Although a fast way to lose weight, certainly would not recommend it - felt and looked like s**t. I felt I lost weight at an unhealthy rate.

I'm still no clearer as to what 'what do your dispel' means, and obviously I'm not the only one! As for giving me a face because I didn't understand it, as though I'm stupid, well, that's the funniest thing I've seen all day! Thanks for trying to help, youngvisitor