to think that the NICE guidelines on obesity and pregnancy are just yet another way of pissing off pregnant women?

[PerfectDromedary]

I'm 9 weeks today, and trying to enjoy a first, very much longed-for pregnancy. But as far as I can work out, NICE is out to get me - and the 40% of pregnant women who are overweight/obese when they conceive.

Am I being unreasonable to think that the medical profession has just put on their judgy pants about yet another aspect of women's behaviour while pregnant? It seems highly unlikely that going on a diet while pregnant is a good idea - plus, if I don't have something in my stomach at all times, I'm quite likely to throw up...

(NB I may also be a little bit hormonal. But seriously, ffs.)

Chil1234 Fertility treatment is only available to women with a BMI between 18-30 - I'd just been denied IVF on these grounds when (quite miraculously) I became pregnant.

And I'll put my hands up to a badly-phrased OP: I'm not quite hormonal enough to think that NICE guidelines which have been in discussion for a long time have just been released to get at me...

Lovely lovely lovely camel it's alright. You have been through sooooooo much to get where you are and I for one know how bloody well you look after yourself.

To anyone that doesn't know the OP I know for a fact that she has a much healthier lifestyle than, say, me, but has a higher bmi. This happens a lot and I think apart from anything else the bmi measurement can be a bit of an inaccurate tool.

Morbidly obese would be a worry yes, whether ttc, pg or not. But the OP is one of many women who is healthy, looks after herself and is still not tiny. And she is obviously feeling a bit shit so Be Nice to her.

That first trimester I ate like a pig to stop feeling sick and did no exercise because I was so tired. And I know having a healthy diet is a good idea. And I am overweight. So when my GP asked what sort of diet I was eating it was with some trepidation that I said "cheesy puffs and white bread". And he just said "well done, just eat what you can keep down and take it easy on yourself".

So yeah, good that the information is out there for the masses (in case anyone didn't know), but on an individual basis I wish pregnant women were just given the info and not made to feel shit about it, you can only do your best.

Drom - congratulations on your pregnancy, and do anything/everything you can to enjoy it!!

Perfect - you can be as defensive as you like, however the fact is that there are increaed risks in being overweight and pregnant. There is obviously a difference in being a little bit overweight, and obeses, and the risks increase exponentially.

The main aim behind these guidelines is to try and make people think about being a healthy weight BEFORE pregnancy, and then to stop them from gaining more weight than necessary during pregnancy. Why is that a bad thing? Is it infantilising? Well, if people do things that are bad for them are supposed to not point it out, ever? Lets not mention that smoking in pregnancy is bad, eh - it's a bit patronising?!

It's 'not necessarily under your control'? TBH, in pregnancy, what you eat and how much exercise you do is probably one of things that is more within your control. Whether you get stretch marks or a nice midwife...not so much.

Oatcakes are very high in calories, btw .

chili1234 to be honest i also think the cost saving aspect is a valid one! if there is a way people can help themselves have healthier pregnancies, putting less of a strain on hospitals it is in both the patient's and NHS interest to promote it! I know i dont want to be in there any longer than needed!!

@PerfectDromedary... since BMI 25 is the cut-off for 'overweight' (BMI 30 is 'obese') then there is plenty of scope to reduce availability of IVF further.

drom, I'm completely with you. I had a BMI of 27.1 when I conceived & gained 7lbs in the first 12 weeks. I was getting really upset reading all the guidelines about how you shouldn't gain anything in the first trimester and yet I couldn't go more than two hours without needing white carbs to stop the urge to puke.

I also used to go to the gym & do spin & body combat classes, but I just felt sooo goddamn tired there was just no way - so my thighs & arse have just been speading. It's disheartening enough without reading about it in the DM.

But... I am now 14 weeks and starting to see the light a little bit. I'm managing to eat less bread and I've stepped cautiously back to the gym - only to walk fast uphill on the treadmill, but it's helped me feel better about myself.

I also bought this - it's really good

www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Pregnancy-Fitness-DVD/dp/B001CC7DN2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dv d&qid=1280306595&sr=8-1

AND it has Mike from Desperate Housewives in it!

So... CONGRATULATIONS on your pegnancy drom, and try not to become too disheartened xxx

PerfectDromedary - It's not about you. You may no well what works for you, you may well be right, well whoopy-fucking-doo just get on with it then.

If you are too selfish too put up with some nagging that will actually have a positive effect on some other people then that is quite sad. If you want personal health care, pay for it yourself.

Chill1234 - of course it is about cost saving that is the purpose of NICE. It's a very important role.

ragged Hang on, didn't someone tell me to eat oatcakes earlier on because they're low GI? Oh, you mean there's very little consistency in dieting (NOT nutritional) advice?

notyummy It's how it's done that's infantilising, not necessarily the advice. And frankly, your aggression and loathing of overweight/obese posters makes me wonder what's going on with you.

Amazingly, before pregnancy, I thought that I would just carry on as normal - I used to run three times a week and do a couple of sessions of ashtanga yoga. However, fatigue and nausea (and my yoga teacher telling me that it's not really a good idea to do ashtanga during pregnancy) have put the kibosh on that.

Haven't looked this up, Chil1234, but is there actually any evidence that a BMI of 25-30 reduces success of IVF, or is harmful in PG? Because if not, that would just be discrimination against the chubby.

Chill out TheCoalition.

oatcakes are reasonably high calorie but for avoidance of gestational dm they are a better snack than lower calorie but sweeter biscuits as they're lower gi. I only ate one or two of them, not the whole packet. Low gi foods keep you fuller longer and help avoid the blood sugar variations that make sickness worse and might mean you need to snack less often so it's not just about calories.

thecoalition so glad to see you read my post and applied the appropriate sensitivity. Have a gold star for human kindness.

cam I think you prob should have posted somewhere other than aibu. Don't think you need this at the mo.

Is alright, gin! Am cross, not upset - although I might end up with my blood pressure rising to the nth degree. But thank you!

I don't loathe overweight/obese posters Perfect. I have been overweight myself. I am genuinely not trying to get at you personally or upset you.

What I do get frustrated by is people complaining when they are presented with the facts about the risks that their behaviour could cause. To me THAT is childish. It smacks of whining. And that isn't just overweight people - that is anyone who can't deal with the consequences of their actions....surely infantilising people is actually treating them with kid gloves and NOT telling them the truth?

I'm all for providing people with various types of assistance to manage their health problems (food/alchohol/fags etc)...but when a body who that is trying to assist gets whined at for pointing out the facts (don't tell me to stop binge drinking, you'll ruin my saturday night...) then yes, I get a bit pissed off.

I'm sorry if people think I am overreacting but I find peoples reaction to medical advice that they don't happen to agree with or they think shouldn't apply to them and who use that to rubbish it when it is helpful to others selfish.

They may or may not be having a hard time - that may explain their actions but does not excuse them.

I get cross about this - does it show?

I didn't say that losing weight during your first trimester was easy Perfect, simply that you can't say 'oh it's probably bad for you/the baby' because for an obese woman it would not be bad for her, quite the opposite in fact.

TBH, in pregnancy, what you eat and how much exercise you do is probably one of things that is more within your control.

Hahahahaha. Hahaha. No stop, I'm going to puke again.

I was going to have such a healthy pregnancy, eat only good food and be worthy. And then the sickness started. And now I eat what I can keep down. Unlike some, eating constantly does not help my sickness, it makes it worse. So I find myself 9 weeks pregnant and 5lbs lighter than I was when I started. Despite not being able to do my normal running because, ummm, it makes me puke. On the bright side, maybe I'll get my BMI under 30 before the second trimester.

I think it's fine to give information about risks, but the way the media leaps on these stories makes me furious. So I am with you Drom.

The whole point of NICE is to appraise procedures/ drugs etc and come up with ways of making NHS money go further- so, eg, even if a drug gets a license, NICE may issue guidance to say that it shouldnt be prescribed routinely if it's not better than something cheaper, or that it should only be used as a second line if the cheaper alternative doesnt work.

The fact is that being overweight does increase risk of complicating factors during pregnancy and childbirth which cost the NHS more money. Not everybody does, obviously, but the trends are there.

The NHS isnt a bottomless pit and I think it's fair that they expect people to take steps to improve their own health and improve their chances of a straightforward labour through lifestyle modifications.

TheCoalition Actually, the NICE guidelines are perfectly sensible www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/live/13056/49926/49926.pdf Is the media furore that has made me insane - like Muse says.

Trillian NICE says that dieting during pregnancy is a bad idea.

But muser - the facts as reported by the BBC etc are correct, so why does the fact that it is reported in the media upset you? If they were twisting the truth then fair enough.

Sorry to hear about your sickness btw. I honestly still think though that for the majority of people (which is why I said 'more' - not 'totally' within your control) the amount and type of food they eat in pregnancy is a choice, and so putting on a huge amount of weight is self-inflicted.

I don't think the majority are reacting badly to the medical advice because they don't agree with it, I think the reaction is because of the way it is delivered.

As in, I do think the "healthy diet" rule applies to me, but when I'm vomming every day and only toast stays down, I don't want to be lectured about my weight and made to feel even more guilty.

It's good that the information is out there, but the way it's presented is poor.

Yeah, you do seem cross TheCoalition - but I don't think the OP ever said she thought the medical advice didn't apply to her, so no need to jump up and down on her.