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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Being wierd about DD having Barbie dolls

161 replies

happysunshinedays · 25/07/2010 20:45

She's 4 and going to big school in September. On the last day of Preschool she had a wobble that night and said the other children wouldn't play with her. She's got loads of good friends out of school and generally very social, lovely girl.

Then she told me that other (seemingly very popular girls) in her class love Barbie. Have also heard about High School Musical as being a Preschool trend.

I don't want her to be the odd-bod in the class obviously, but saw some Barbies for sale today and couldn't bring myself to buy them! All boobs and legs!

Trying to find the line between her natural desire to fit in and encouraging her to grow up too quickly.

Any words of wisdom??

OP posts:
ISNT · 27/07/2010 19:03

Sorry I may have gone a bit far with that last post.

But honestly what a thing to get worked up about.

slushy · 27/07/2010 19:14

I do have to say many people are not good at maths and have a good career .

The reason I get so het up about it is the reason many (not all) don't like it is because of the big breasts, as the first poll of why parents disliked it showed. When you have had people attack you while out calling you a slag for having breasts and shown someone the sores and cuts from your bra and be told it serves you right you get upset about the anti big breast attitude.

But you went and researched it to so you must have got quite het up to.

ISNT · 27/07/2010 19:53

I just thought it was odd that people were so vociferously defending a toy that does (like it or not) have certain attributes, connotations, and a past that might make women feel uncomfortable giving it to their daughters.

Certainly the historical context of barbie is that she was born in a different time, when women were much more constrained in what they could do and how they could look, and the doll reflected that. Increasing her waist size slightly and saying that actually these days she's a philosopher and genetecist doesn't get away from her origins.

So if some women feel uncomfortable with that particular toy then fine, surely understandable given the "math is tough" etc stuff. Saying that Barbie does not fit in with the idea of a role model for girls, for some women, isn't an attack on women - it's an attack on a symbol, if you like, of a different time.

For me, personally, I feel that dolls like this contribute to stereotypes rather than break them. As a blonde woman, I feel annoyed that blondes are classified as "dumb", and I think that these dolls and other images contribute to that, I personally don't accept the argument that the fact Barbie can now come with a space-suit is breaking down gender stereotypes. Because everyone knows, really, that Barbie is all about clothes and boys and fun and not at all about trying to pee into a bizarre receptacle in zero gravity conditions with her hair going bananas.

I think I just came on as it was all getting a bit personal with Strix, and I'd heard that "math class is tough" thing, and something rang a bell about the thin-ness as well, and of the various positions being adopted i identified with the "not keen" position. And had a nagging feeling that Barbie herself wasn't blameless in all of this.

slushy · 27/07/2010 20:02

Yes but her origins are not applicable, it is what she is today that matters. You come from the same origins or the women that doll was modeled on.

Yes you are a different person but your ancestors were that person, the doll you buy in the shop is a different doll but it stems from the other doll. The origins don't matter and IMO keeping these things from your dd will make it much more desirable we have had a few feminists daughters those who the doll was kept from have come on and said they wouldn't what does that tell you?

ISNT · 27/07/2010 20:09

I#m not keeping anything from my DD

Are you the woman who said I had to buy my 2yo DD some barbies "before it was too late"???

Do you think only "feminists" are dubious about barbie?

Why do the origins not matter? The origins of everything matter. That's why we don't give DD gollywogs.

LouAnnVanHouten · 27/07/2010 20:15

"Well, really, is this what your GP looks like?"

Seriously? My GP is a 60 year old man. Why does that matter. Whats your point? Ds's paed is an absolute stunner. Really gorgeous with waist length hair she even has been known to wear high heels.

ponceydog · 27/07/2010 20:16

Buy her a barbie

slushy · 27/07/2010 20:19

No I said no such thing, I am not saying buy them but if you dd really wanted one I think you are being precious to ban one because20 years ago 1.5% of a model of barbie said Maths is tough.

So by the same logic you don't shop in any of the clothes shop that the let girls be girl are campaigning against for sexualising young children (the same reason you are arguing against banning barbie) and never will again?

Secondly no I don't think only feminist dislike barbie, Others do one group of which is those who dislike big breasts. But the daughters of those who were banned from having a barbie said it was wrong too.

The op and others are saying about banning barbie, and those who as children had barbie banned have said they would not ban their children which to me speaks volumes about what is important. I also think there are much bigger and more important battles to fight with your children than a doll with breasts.

slushy · 27/07/2010 20:21

"Well, really, is this what your GP looks like?" Yes I also had a beautiful blonde optometrist wearing heels. I felt quite inadequate.

MandyMcFly · 27/07/2010 20:22

Yes but the thing is, while the origins or whatever may offend some women...the point is, it will not project any kind of image onto a child, she will just think 'oh a pretty doll'. It is the adults seeing barbie as over sexualised as somebody said, it will not have any effect on the child! And anyway, like I said earlier, I collect barbies for my DD when she is older, the vintage ones and special edition. And they all have different hair colours, skin tones, clothes, 'careers'...I recently bought this Louboutin barbie www.net-a-porter.com/product/98190?cm_sp=we_recommend--98190--slot2 And she has red hair, like my daughter. I have them all on display in the playroom and they are actually fab because they represent so many different eras/fashions/careers/music...I love them. And they are a good investment.

When it comes down to it, they are just dolls that's all they are. Packaged up waiting to be played with, all of the other connotations are invented by adults, none of which children will be concerned with.

ISNT · 27/07/2010 20:29

Oh sorry slushy that was a joke! It was a RL woman I met who told me I must buy barbies for my DD "before it was too late" which made me a bit I was joking that maybe you were her!

Honestly everyone do what you want, I just don't see why people who love Barbie would care that other people think it's shit

This is a very strange thread though.

slushy · 27/07/2010 20:33

Actually I think it is a refreshingly different thread, nice change from natural verse section or bf v ff but then people who cannot prove a point often say it is a pointless thread and call people stupid for commenting on it when they themselves have devoted time to it .

ISNT · 27/07/2010 20:38

I think that some people left as they felt rather under attack if that's what you mean.

i am also not sure that saying that barbie is not the best female role model in the world is a "point" that has to be "proved". barbie speaks for herself really IMO. Quite literally, with the "math is tough" one.

Am boggled BTW that people's response is "well math is tough". GAH!

ponceydog · 27/07/2010 20:42

lol - just read the 'math s is tough' rot. What a stoopid thing for a doll to say.

slushy · 27/07/2010 20:48

I have not personally attacked anyone, I have been told I am to preoccupied with my appearance and that pretty women are not smart. As it happens I actually respect your decision because if you read through the thread you are the only person who came on with any evidence as to why barbie is not a good role model.

Every one else just said stupid things like barbie is bad and anorexic with no evidence at all or to buy unbranded dolls who have smaller breasts. So I do actually value your opinion because you have had a intelligent debate over the matter .

Bingtata · 27/07/2010 20:48

I've worked with many anorexic teenage girls, its the uptight and controlling parents that get them before barbie does.

slushy · 27/07/2010 20:50

Well said bingtata

LouAnnVanHouten · 27/07/2010 20:52

I don't care that people think barbie is shit I do care that people think that large breasted women are thick as shit.

ISNT · 27/07/2010 20:57

And do you think that people think large breasted / blonde / glamorous women are thick because of the types of stereotypes that are exemplified by barbie?

You don't think that our friend barbie, with her blonde hair and big boobs, stating that maths is tough and she prefers party dresses, might go in some way towards perpetuating that idea?

I am aghast at the idea that Barbie is the cutting edge in gender-role busting propoganda TBH.

slushy · 27/07/2010 21:07

Ok the reason women don't want to buy it is because they say it will make their children overly body conscious. If you give a child a gollywog do you think the child will be racist? The child sees a doll, nothing evil nothing else anything else has been put in their minds by parents which is the only warping of minds that will occur in this circumstance.

But people are claiming that to buy a popular doll will influence their child into being anorexic or insecure or shallow or hate math.

LouAnnVanHouten · 27/07/2010 21:18

Honestly, I think the image came before the doll. Marilyn Monroe film star types/glam '50s houswife doing the housework in a full skirt and heel predate barbie. I think she copied the style of the day and the attitudes of the day and is obviously having trouble getting people to see past that dated image. I think that there are not enough 'normal' clothes for her and I wouldn't mind some flat shoe options and some glasses maybe (I was a spectacled child). I don't think her body shape is that bad right now but some of the vintage ones are uber thin but they are 40ish years old now. I like that she comes in different races and hair colours and with different jobs and hobbies. The thing I liked about her most as a child was she was an adult so could travel and go on adventures and have jobs. She could drive and fly a plane which little girl dolls and baby dolls couldn't do (that car driving baby born freaks me out). To be an adult women is to look unashamedly like an adult woman. I don't accept that its a bad thing.

I don't know why in 2010 women still think pretty/thin/big breasted means you can't do the same things as other women but I don't think banning barbie is the way to stop it.

ISNT · 27/07/2010 21:21

I think that it's what barbie symbolises that makes people feel uncomfortable. The same as what a gollywog symbolises that makes people feel uncomfortable.

Barbie is a symbol of a certain type of stereotypical vision of what it means to be a woman, and what women are interested in. And some women are uncomfortable with that.

Personally I feel that girls understand what is expected of them in our society, and learn very early on what garners them compliments and what sort of behaviour is approved of. So the odd barbie here or there is inconsequential. However, I still won't be going out of my way to buy her one, the same way I won't be encouraging her to keep her clothes clean and pretty, and I won't be emphasising her looks above everything else.

It doesn't matter though, as soon as DD went to nursery she came home saying "mummy can I wear my dress so I look beautiful" and "no mummy that is for boys" and "do these hairclips match my shoes?" so from that point of view Barbie and her fans win, well done, very well done.

ISNT · 27/07/2010 21:25

"I don't know why in 2010 women still think pretty/thin/big breasted means you can't do the same things as other women but I don't think banning barbie is the way to stop it."

Hahahahah brilliant.

Have any of you spoken to many men lately?

Yes of course it's women holding other women back, and stopping then from being astronauts even if they fo think Math is Tough. That is obvious know

This is all cockeyed. Barbie is the result of a sexist society, she was born in a sexist age, she has had some minor alterations to pretend she is up to date but everyone knows what she is really all about.

It is brilliant this argument that women who have a problem with Barbie are the ones making life difficult for women who are blonde or whatever. Rather than vice cersa, and Barbie being a symtom of a deeper malaise. Absolutely inspired

ISNT · 27/07/2010 21:27

Anyway ladies have to post and run I'm off to bed now

LouAnnVanHouten · 27/07/2010 21:30

I know why men think that.

I was refering to women who have posted on this thread implying that women can't be doctors and breasts equal lack of brain, not women in general.