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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Shock outburst from neighbour should I take the CAB advice?

102 replies

alicatte · 23/07/2010 09:31

I am asking this because I don't really know what to do. I spoke to CAB and they said to get in touch with the police. What do you think dear mumsnetters, I feel it seems an extreme solution but I really don't want it to happen again.

I have lived in my house for a very long time - several decades - but it is in a street of houses where there is a high turnover. One of my neighbours who moved in five years ago and lives opposite me had a surprising and major outburst with me yesterday.

But first a bit of background. I have a small driveway,just enough for one car not enough for two (unless it was a G-wizz or a smart car). I have had this for decades, as does my next door neighbour and several other people on the street have hardstandings outside their houses. Recently two more hardstandings were added and then the local authority changed the rules and stopped any more hardstandings being put in.

I am a teacher and am usually at work, my husband has a company car and works all round the country - he gets back at all sorts of times and so we leave the driveway space for him as parking can often be difficult in the evening.

When we first had the drive we did try to put one car in the drive and the other outside over the driveway, but unfortunately because parking is so tight people were constantly parking a wheel or so over the driveway space (just trying to fit in - I guess people get desperate.) and so both the driveway and the space outside were becoming unusable on many occasions. We then started to manage the parking. We also have a garden at the front and so in the evenings, after the day parkers had gone, I would park on the road in front of the garden, so that my husband could still park when he came home.

For decades no-one ever complained about it, some people even said that it was nice that there was always somewhere you could draw into and unpack your children and your shopping before looking for a parking space. We are the first road without residents parking so we have a lot of extra cars overspilling from nearby roads.

Then S moved in. Two years ago on the first day of the school holidays and 5 days after my father had died I was woken at 8.00 a.m. by furious knocking on the front door. S said that she had friends coming round and where were they supposed to park. I should put my car in the driveway and not be so selfish. I was quite tearful at the time and explained why, she said that it wasn't anything to do with her that my father had died. Just to make it clear, at the time there were loads of places in the street - there always are during school holidays.

S's mother then arrived later in her Jaguar, she parked over my driveway (where my car was) although there were lots of other spaces in the street. I was weeding in the front garden at the time and I was a bit shocked so initially I didn't say anything just talked to her, eventually I asked her if it would be possible for her to park in one of the other free spaces instead of blocking me in, she said she wouldn't be long and breezed off into S's house - she was there for hours.

Nothing else much happened for a year and then one day S's husband leaned out of the window as I passed and asked me why I was taking up spaces in the street when parking was at a premium (again this was on a day when there was loads of space). I have a cleaner who was using the driveway space that day - I explained this to him. Later when I went out (on foot) he went over and harangued my cleaner, who reports that she gave him rather short shrift.

Then yesterday I arrived back to find S waiting in the street. She was just about to go on holiday and she laid into me about my discourteous behaviour with regard to the parking. She told me that she understood 'by law' that if you had a driveway then you should only use that space yet we were taking up space in the street. She shouted out at the top of her voice that she didn't believe that my father had died two years ago that it was just a story that I had made up to make her feel sorry for me. She said that she had spoken to other neighbours and that they had told her that I had said that my mother was ill but they had seen her walking up the street two days later (this is impossible as my mother lives at the other end of the country) - bizarre or what. These things proved that I was a liar and discourteous.

All the time my two sons, who have lived here all their lives, were watching this. They were both upset and said that they felt invaded. She was shouting and shouting. So I shouted back (yes I am shocked at myself) that there was no law against parking outside your own house but there were laws against harassment and she was harassing me. I also said that if other neighbours were talking about me then I believed she was starting the conversations. At this point my husband arrived and supported me in a very reasonable way - explaining the same things to her. I went over later and tried to smooth things over which seemed to go well but this is the third incident and I feel so embarrassed at the horrible scene in the street - I can't take it again.

The CAB say it is harassment and I should contact the police. I confess I do feel a little afraid of her.

What would you do?

OP posts:
DaftApeth · 23/07/2010 15:59

Could you swap cars with your dh (assuming his car is larger than yours?) then you could use the drive all the time and he only has to squeeze a small car across your driveway each evening?

BTW it is only illegal to block a car onto a driveway, not to park across an empty drive.

FindingMyMojo · 23/07/2010 16:06

you can park where you like - just like your neighbours could do if they had a car. You have been very polite. I would have told them to F off when they started being rude & unreasonable.

Go to the police - these people are harrassing you.

I expect other MN'er to give you more calm & responsible advice than I Hope it sorts out soon - what a nightmare

Needanewname · 23/07/2010 19:28

You only have her say so that she has spoken to the neighbours, and even if she has, they (may be just as intimidated by her as you - which by the way I understand why!)

Also if people park across an empty driveway theres nothing you can do, however if your car is on your driveway and they block you in they can be towed away.

I'd definitely invite your neighbours over for a bbq, but I wouldn't be inviting her, you've tried to be nice, it didn't work, so I wouldn;t bother.

Myleetlepony · 23/07/2010 19:49

We do this. We have two cars, and who ever comes home first parks outside our house, slightly over our dropped kerb. This means that the second one in can still get on to the hardstanding at the front of the house and park there. The alternative is to park the first car in on the hardstanding, and then find a neighbour parked outside the house when the second one gets in, often overlapping out dropped kerb. Nobody seems to object to this, they might even appreciate our consideration as some of our neighbours park 2 cars on the street, leaving their drives and hardstanding empty.
If you get any more aggro I would report it to the police. And I wouldn't be afraid to talk to your other neighbours about what's happening, they might be perfectly OK with what you're doing.

alicatte · 24/07/2010 15:48

Thanks everyone I just wanted to say that it was really valuable getting an outside view of the situation, it was really interesting how so many people supported the same course of action and that was really helpful to me because I didn't know what to do - I feel a lot clearer about it now. S is obviously very stressed but, as her current hate object, I can't really help her. I will just smile and carry on with life.

I am really grateful mumsnetters - thanks.

OP posts:
theskiinggardener · 24/07/2010 16:13

We have similar parking issues where we live. If you are worried that S is causing trouble with the neighbours why not write a letter to the council asking for resident parking permits and ask the neighbours if they would be interested in signing it? That way they can see you are a nice person trying to address the problem constructively. We're now getting a scheme implemented, once we found the right council person to invite to a friendly meeting (with biscuits) it was all quite easy.

katiestar · 24/07/2010 16:27

If I'm reading your post correctly, it seems as though she has spoken to you only twice in 2 years aboutr the matter, which I don't think could constitute harassment.Also as you yelled back at her it would sound to a 3rd party as six of one and half a dozen of the other.
Just carry on as though nothing had happened.

ZZZenAgain · 24/07/2010 16:56

I think I would go to the police about this. I cannot fathom the parking problem tbh but her behaviour and that of her mother is unnecessarily aggressive. Frankly I wouldn't put up with it and talking about you behind your back and whether or not a parent has died etc is really just vicious , if not to say disturbingly sick.

I think a visit from the police might well put the wind up her and put an end to it although no doubt she will continue to mutter. Once she knows what the law is in regard to parking and that you are not doing anything you cannot do, also that she has to watch her step in terms of libel and harassment, perhaps it will take the wind out of her sails.

It is all very strange though. I suspect her mother is behind it since she arrives with a car, was blatantly offensive about parking to block your drive and is presumably the one who objects to not being able to park as close as possible to the house.

ZZZenAgain · 24/07/2010 17:01

residential parking is quite a good way out of it actually but will take some time.

alicatte · 24/07/2010 19:35

katiestar,

Thanks for sharing, it helps me to test my own responses and get things clear re all the advice I've been given.

According to the Community Support person (I eventually did decide to speak to about it after reading through everyone's responses) Its the coming over, knocking on the door and waiting for me and then the things that she said (unreasonable complaints apparently) that constitutes harassment, its not so much the shouting - although of course that was what I was most upset about.

I am horrified at myself most of all - if you knew me, which of course you don't, I just don't do the shouting thing at all.

Thanks ZZen - that did get me thinking too. It would explain a lot wouldn't it. Now I'm beginning to feel sorry for her.

OP posts:
alicatte · 24/07/2010 19:51

I guess the lack of resident's parking doesn't help does it.

OP posts:
Earlybird · 24/07/2010 21:44

Are you particularly friendly with any of your neighbours? If so, could you confide in them/ask their opinion of the situation?

Don't think you want to go 'round canvassing opinions generally (to see who she has been speaking to), as it could incite/escalate the situation. Also, wouldn't invite her over for a cuppa - better not to engage with someone confrontational and nutty.

May have missed it - what does your dh think/advise?

alicatte · 25/07/2010 09:21

Yes I am particularly friendly with several of the neighbours. I was chatting with 6 of them yesterday at various times but I just couldn't bring it up. I feel sure that at least one of them heard it. She asked me if I was OK and when I said I guess so - she just laughed and changed the subject.

My DH thinks that we should write a letter explaining the situation and then not necessarily send it - he points out that S is 'not listening' so it might not help. He thinks we should, make sure it is logged at the police community support but ask for advice rather than help (which I did but now feel mean to have done that) just ignore it and carry on as normal. He also thinks I shouldn't invite her round.

As I calm down I feel more and more sorry for her - she must have felt so upset to do that.

OP posts:
ChoChoSan · 25/07/2010 10:08

I have to say I am sympathetic toward your neighbour's POV, if not her approach. From her position, you are hogging a space unnecessarily all day that others could be using, just so that your second car has the convenience of also parking outside your house hours later. A bit like putting a towel on your holiday sunbed first thing in the morning.

It's not very neighbourly, is it? Everyone else has to take their chances with the parking spaces when they get home from work, why is your DH so special?

You seem to have dismissed her concerns out of hand, and it speaks volumes that you have not acknowledge that she might have a legitimate point. It might not be against the law to be selfish and inconsiderate to the people you share a street with, but that doesn't make it reasonable.

DuelingFanjo · 25/07/2010 10:13

"just so that your second car has the convenience of also parking outside your house hours later."

if you read the OP though it does seem to be more about blocking access to the drive also.

Also all the shouting abouther lying about a death in the family, the having a go at the cleaner etc is clearly quite over-the-top behaviour.

LadyBiscuit · 25/07/2010 10:13

I don't think she has a legitimate point ChoChoSan - the neighbour doesn't even have a car FGS! I can leave my car parked outside someone's house for a year if I want. It might piss them off but that's tough - a public road is a public road.

ChoChoSan · 25/07/2010 10:20

I understand that, Lady Bicuit, but as I said, just because something is legal, doesn't make it considerate or neighbourly. I don't think you should have to legislate for good manners.

I don't have a car, and one could argue that neighbours with more than one car benefit year round from that fact - one less car to compete with on my road, and so if I have a guest coming and someone is doing what the OP is doing, it would piss me off for the reasons I stated above.

The blocking access bit seems to have stemmed from the initial issue. And I know that the shouting etc is not the right way to go about things.

Tortington · 25/07/2010 10:26

DO NOT PARK in front of an entrance to a property - Highway Code point 217

you could put this on your driveway gate or as a sign.

i agree that the woman is mad

HOWEVER

i also think you are saving two spaces - which is not neighbourly.

you park in the drive and your dh has to take his chances.

Ripeberry · 25/07/2010 10:28

If you have enough room for two cars then I think you should use it. My parents live in a street where one side of the street is on a steep little hill and the other side is flat.
They guy accross the road has a big front garden and a little driveway. The garden is just grass, but he insists ALWAYS on parking on my parents side of the street.
That familly have three cars and they dominate the whole front of my parents house.
All they have to do is put some parking stones into the grass and they could keep their grass and park on it.

In a way I don't blame your neighbours as it is annoying when people have the space but don't use it.

alicatte · 25/07/2010 10:32

cho cho san - I did explain earlier but perhaps you missed it, there are two driveways close to each other. two ordinary sized cars can't fit in the space between but they do try to, which can block off both driveways which means four cars looking for a space in the street - all for one extra place outside the house. I have a very much smaller car which can fit in and still leave the other space - I genuinely don't think I'm really inconveniencing anyone. I also work quite far away and have children who need to get to school. Most of the time I am not there because I have to work.

These problems I realise are happening during school holidays when I am there. The odd thing is that during the school holidays there are often loads of places in the street. There are now and definitely were last week on the day this happened. It seems to be something about that particular space I think. I am sorry you think I am being inconsiderate but I genuinely don't think I am.

OP posts:
autodidact · 25/07/2010 10:34

Agree with custy.

Is your house a lot nicer/posher/bigger than hers? Wondered if she was thinking "that rich family are well off enough to have their own driveway and they still hog the best parking spaces on the road!" type of thing. Which is not fair of her, but does happen.

alicatte · 25/07/2010 10:35

No its the other way round actually - her house is lovely, big and detached.

OP posts:
autodidact · 25/07/2010 10:44

Oh right. Scratch that, then! Hope you sort it all out.

alicatte · 25/07/2010 10:51

You know possibly I am reacting to her subconsciously which is why I shouted.

Maybe its me that is thinking 'You have so much more (S also has a lot of work done on her house, builders, gardeners and things in the street), you don't have to work and now you are even trying to control where I park my little car and where my husband parks too when he comes home often very late at night' Its possible I guess.

I mustn't shout at her again - thank you autodidact for bringing up the concept of underlying issues.

OP posts:
alicatte · 25/07/2010 12:18

This whole parking situation - both my problem and the others I have come across are all beginning to remind me of a scene in Middlemarch by George Eliot in which the heroine realises that her (much older) husband is living in a world of his own and in fact we all are. We see things from our own point of view because given our own learning and life experience that's the only point of view we can see.

Those without parking resent parking spaces because it disadvantages them and find concepts to support this such as varieties of specifically defined 'fairness' and 'courtesy' and (as in my case an element of attempted control). Those with parking resort to legal justifications and the idea of managed solutions (as in my case too) but both sides are as selfish as each other and both as justified as each other I guess.

Its time to move on for me I think.

Thank you everybody - I've learned a lot in these past two days and I am very very grateful.

OP posts:
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