to want to shout at Primark shoppers?

[baiyu]

I mean really, just how many shoppers without a conscience are there? There really is no justification for shopping somewhere that treats its garment workers so badly and has continued to do despite years of campaigning.

Primark are thriving in the economic downturn making workers lives worse and worse as they struggle to keep up with orders. Being poor is no excuse, I can?t afford to buy new clothes but I?d rather my few quid went to Oxfam than ABF and their cruel trading practices. So tell me, why do people shop there? The quality is terrible too, how is it a bargain if an item of clothing lasts ten minutes?

I?m not just reading the Daily Mail by the way, researching things like this is my job, the working conditions have NOT improved and it?s just making me angry! AIBU to think more people should care?

Blimey. Just dipped my head in and found full on battle commencing! I try to shop ethically, but it is v hard. I buy less because I don't buy the 'poor people have to shop in Primark' argument. If you see the huge bags people walk out with - my own philosophy is that I would rather pay more for something etical than less for several of the same type iyswim. but that's my choice, and I don't support other ethical/charitable things others do (Can't stand animals, always ignore RSPCA collection tins for example). I use websites like Labour Behind the Label to try to keep up, avoid the obvious ones, and buy new stuff from Oxfam and Made (fab jewellery label). Each to their own - you do what you can in this world, and you can't support every cause.

'All I am saying is do as you would be done by. If you want a living wage and agree with the concept of the [frankly v low] minimum wage in the UK
How much do you think I get in caretr's babyB?

£5..90 per week

now, I am not complaining as I am grateful forn the welfare state (I did pay into it for 20 years mind) but it's siimply not going to stretch

And tell em why selling cakes for haiti, donating to Unicef when we could, being a member of Amnesty isn't taking a responsibility? Exactly what more, seriously, could I be doing?

And yes, where should we shop? I don't mean nice little fairttradey boutiques mind: I eman places I am likely to encounter in South Wales.

My friend was eulogising about Primark and I pulled a face qithout intending to, and she said 'Oh I know they're abd but they've offered me a job'- she used tow ork in the Woolies in teh building ebfore.

Would you tell her she shouldn't take that work?

When things are good and famillies doing well they have options, we did: DH used to be a transport planner and manager, I worked for a great charity; but with poverty, whether you live in the UK or any other company, the one thing that is sahred is absence of chocie. Choices cost money. As someone who ahd a good career before, having no choice was what I felt more than the lack of hard cash tbh.

Possible another thing we share is a desire for our kids to have it better: and for me that makes sure I put them in decent shoes and a coat when needed, if that means sacrificing ideals (NOT morals- caring for your own kids is moral) then so be it.

And you know where my jewellery comes from?

hand made by a poor autistic kid ion the dim light of his bedroom.

In fact he kjust amde me a great green glass necklace and I will now go amke him lunch to say thanks, my own dear DS1.

We're hoping he can start trading at car boots etc next year and IMO that's as good as any other way of getting things becuase he sure as hell won;t be getting a career that needs social skills! (DH will sell for him)

I have shopped in Primark before and probably will do again sometime. I have three children and another on the way and although both my husband and myself work it is impossible for us to afford fair trade clothing for us all! As Tocc said earlier my kids would be walking around naked!! This does not mean that I don't buy other affordable fairtrade goods, it's just the clothes that are expensive.

I am not saying that it is fair how workers are treated in the clothing industry abroad but let's just stop and think for one moment...if those people didn't have those jobs what food would they eat at the end of their day!?? How would they survive!?? There are too many ways we can look at this problem before we can judge people by what they choose to buy in this day and era!

Tocc - seeing as you recycle would you like some of my eldest's clothes for your eldest?? He has grown out of some stuff, I usually give it away, if you don't want it I will give it to someone else.

"If you see the huge bags people walk out with - my own philosophy is that I would rather pay more for something etical than less for several of the same type iyswim. "

grumpy - some of us explained further up that when we go to the likes of Primark (I've never actually set foot in one - but would if we had one locally) it's a one off thing to replace an entire wardrobe once our DC have nothing that fits left in their drawers.

Even just a couple of tops, trousers and jumpers for one nearly 10yr old boy takes up a bag or 2, if DS1's outgrown clothes aren't in a state to be handed onto DS2 - I may be buying for DS2 as well.

oooo Sarinha - just seen your post as I was typing this one - would love some of your oldest s stuff (if you don't want to keep it for your other DS to grow into in a couple of years time???).

BTw - while I've seen you here and we're discussing clothes - are you wanting that white t-shirt back? It's down at the bottom of my ironing basket at the moment.

tocc - i didn't t really have that in mind, more the teenagers with bags crammed full of sparkly tops. We just replace and recycle (hand me downs) but as I tried to explain, possibly badly, ethical trading is my interest, rather than other ways of contributing to society (various charities/ pressure groups etc). Hence my nosiness inyterest in this thread.

ARGHHH

What part of bloody I am a member of Amnesty

I buyy fairtrade whennever I can

We made and sold cakes for haiti in teh schoolyard

We donated to Unicef when we could

I ahve a bloody degree incluidng an ethics module because I do care

are you not getting?

I have to wlak away now as I have things to do, but goodness you are narrow sighted aren't you?

And I did not complain about my CA, I said I did not, I simply indicated how very impossible it actually would be to make it go any further

I work (OK care- same bloody thing IME) 24/7; I stdy for an MA; I help with volunteering at the school; I offer asd advice and am setting yup a sib group

Do as you would be done by mya rse- I wish!

And you still ahven;t told people where they SHOULD shop either

I love Primark. It's cheap. I'm not rich. Sorry about that.

Babybarrister, I have just reread the thread (to try sum up the views and advice so I am a bit more informed) and no one on this thread has shown that they don't give a flying fuck about anyone apart from themselves!

Which ones?

Still waiting to be told where I am actually permitted to shop.

Changed my mind, Babybarrister, no need to point out who you were referring to, doesn't help the discussion. Sorry.

TheCrackFox: I agree a list would be good to have a look at, but it seems like the sort of thing that isn't instantly available, takes a bit of digging for, or maybe even paying for??

Most of the people working in sweatshops are not indentured labourers. They do have a choice about whether to work there or not. It may not be much of a choice, but it is better that the alternatives.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't campaign for better working conditions, but you should be aware of unintended consequences.

Not read all 12 pages but I think many people like OP who get so upset have probably never visited these countries and just get their information from the Daily Mail.

I've travelled far & wide with my job. I've seen what extreme poverty looks like. Quite often you will find that the workers are happy to work at all. Older children will face stark choices like work or see your family starve.

They live in a country where there is no social security, no sick pay, no NHS. And the police are more corrupt than the crime lords.

To then apply our own standards and say we're treating them like slave labour is oversimplifying it.

Do I want to see a young child work? No. Would I rather he and his family starve instead? NO!

Its a complex problem and not just as simple as "blame primark"

the crackfox taking your post at face value (haven't read whole thread so not sure if you are being sarcastic!) I found this site a really good starting point when I became interested in ethical shopping. Clean slate is good for uniform too. www.labourbehindthelabel.org/resources I also buy jewellery and gifts from Oxfam and Made, and try to avoid places I am concerned about, or think about what I am buying. But it's really a grey area - it's really easy for me to buy Fairtrade coffee, but quite hard to work out where I feel comfortable buying clothes, esp as practices change with time.

Flight of the Conchords sum up this issue really well in their song [ Think About It]] at 1.26

aaaarh - here is the link

Hilarious, Mojo
"Please removes these cutleries from my knees" [grins]

So what you are sayong the BB is you want to shout at people who shop for clothes non ethically but its hard to work out where is ethical, yes?

Have you considered standing outside the gates to your local mall and just shouting at people randomly? Would be far easier.