to want to shout at Primark shoppers?

[baiyu]

I mean really, just how many shoppers without a conscience are there? There really is no justification for shopping somewhere that treats its garment workers so badly and has continued to do despite years of campaigning.

Primark are thriving in the economic downturn making workers lives worse and worse as they struggle to keep up with orders. Being poor is no excuse, I can?t afford to buy new clothes but I?d rather my few quid went to Oxfam than ABF and their cruel trading practices. So tell me, why do people shop there? The quality is terrible too, how is it a bargain if an item of clothing lasts ten minutes?

I?m not just reading the Daily Mail by the way, researching things like this is my job, the working conditions have NOT improved and it?s just making me angry! AIBU to think more people should care?

But my question is, what are the other options? No one who has been critical of Primark has said where they shop (or did I miss that post?). I've seen a few posts saying they buy second-hand, or from ebay, but what labels?

"But it cannot be right that being poor by UK standards is some sort of trump card in relation to acting ethically"

What the hell else do you suggest I / we do? I go into charity shops, but if they don't have what I need, then I have to go elsewhere. Being "poor by UK standards" might make me a millionaire by sweatshop worker standards, but I live in the UK, and therefore have to live by UK means.

Get a bloody grip.

"But it cannot be right that being poor by UK standards is some sort of trump card in relation to acting ethically"

This is the quote of someone who cannot visualise that being poor even by UK standards might mean not actually being able to lay your hands on that £20 or whatever. Actually, physically not having it. So what are you supposed to do while saving up for that quality garment? Walk naked?

They are not the only ones so what do we do? We can't all shop at Oxfam. If I knew of a shop which boycotted these practices I would use it but I don't.

But cheer up! In fifty years time we'll probably be the ones in sweatshops making thinks for the chinese. Let's hope they have more conscience then we do.

Being able to get your clothes from Oxfam or (as in my case) wearing your MILs cast-offs does presuppose that somebody else has been doing that initial shopping.

'But it cannot be right that being poor by UK standards is some sort of trump card in relation to acting ethically . Shouldn't it be rather the opposite? '

Again, this patronising tone that a) you are somehow the arbitor of what is ethical behaviour b) the poor should behaving 'more ethically' than others.

I really hope this is a wind up.

Fuchzia - so true!

OP - which brand is your laptop please?

To answer an earlier question, yes, my son is more important that an anonymous child elsewhere. See Fuchzia's post for further 2+2 detail.

well the only charity shop i found here charges dam site more than Primark does for new stuff ,
and a smuch as I would like to be ethical my purse , budget and children dont allow me to be

Riven polo shirts here end up in bin by end of year as badly stained damaged or just plain lost

babybarrister
it's not a trump card

it's basic economics

I only have £2 in my bank and if I go into X Y an Z stores they will refuse to sell me the product I need without more money

I act ethically whever I gett he chance, goodness i'm a bloody amrtyr to my ewthics- I pretty much got DHa dn i evicted from a hobby site yesterday for reacting to posts that women and gay people should not be able to vote for heavens sake

But, not being a moiracle worker cannot make £2 into £5. sadly.

And to be honest there's a bit of thinking thata ctually, given that the people working for Primark still quite like having an income, what I do do ismprobably the best route in many ways- getting iinvovled in the actual groups that help them, whilst buying from them( ageneric them: as I saiid no primark here yet)

Oha nd wrt to electronics the fairtrade thing massively simplifies the issues there

DH is in electronics; he ahs an internet shop selling a mix of products, amny second hand, from all over the world. He's alsoa technician and training in a specific field of design but it's the shop that's relevant here.

A few eyears ago he developed a product betetr than the ones developed in China (they need to be portable so smaller) and tried to maanufctuire.

It wasn't cost or anything else that prevented it, but EU laws and the costs firms attribute to eprforming extremely absic tests to get a licence that thwarted it all. £9000 for a test DH tells me can be done in a morning and pretty much cost free (this was several years ago now so figures no doubt out of date).

We didn't have £9k so couldn't sell in the EU.

Mopst peopel wanting to set up homeowrking or small fairtrade prices don't have that either.

It's far more complex than just about worker costs, sadly.

'"But it cannot be right that being poor by UK standards is some sort of trump card in relation to acting ethically"

This is the quote of someone who cannot visualise that being poor even by UK standards might mean not actually being able to lay your hands on that £20 or whatever. Actually, physically not having it. So what are you supposed to do while saving up for that quality garment? Walk naked? '

Absolutely Cory: and more, if I chose to wear broken or cold clothes myself how could I ask the boys to do that?

I have £7.31 in my bank account today, I am quite happy about that as all my bills are paid (yay) and a bit more goes in tomorrow. however, if a DS breaks his shoes this afternnon then my options are limited: Asda crocs or- well tehre is no or.

AS it happens I am lucky enough to have a DH who would help out but it still has to come from another budget- we'd have to cut back on foor, probably- and not everyone has that DH. Herck, for some people having £7 at the end of the week is a massive achievement (I do ahve moneys put aside for toehrs things from DLA but legally that's not mine and I know of people in RL had theirs stopped for spending it on bills and not claimant)

You can only ask people to do their best before you go from motiavtor to sanctimonious twit. Someone on a budget who buys 2nd hand when they cn or fairtrade when option available is doing their bit.

same as sancti and cory

I would love to be able to lay my hands on £20 Im broke and mean broke as in down to last few quid in bank were talking £3 and that has to make it throught to next Weds , luckily i learnt 1 hundred and 1 things to do with mince, spuds and vedge .

But I just cannot afford to be ethical

Baiyu - 'I try to tred as lightly on this planet as I can'.

Oh well done.

You are presumably typing on a PC. Which will have been made using dodgy practices in a lwo cost economy.

Ditto mobile phone. As said above certain minerals as used in mobile phone electronics are mined in pernicious ways.

Anything with a screw in it. Anything. All those screws will have been made in the far east. A large percentage using companies with less than admirable employment practices.

As someone has mentioned the growing of cotton in teh former Uzbekistan has drained one of the largest inland seas and has had a devastating effect on bioth the economy, envioronment and people's lives.

But no, you choose to come on MN and preach about Primark shops, thereby having a good go at insulting those people who cannot afford to shop elsewhere.

Shame on you.

babybarrister - I lived for 2 1/2yrs in a developing country. For 6 months of that it was in poverty (not our choice bastard government had it in for the Brits at the time and refused to renew my work visa even though I had a decent job - so I was out of work).

I was also poor growing up, but my real understanding of what being poor in the UK is like has come from being an adult and poor.

Just because we, through circumstances, have no choice to buy from shops (and if you look at some of the links provided you'll see it's not just the "cheap shops" that have a bad record/don't care about these things) doesn't mean we're not thinking about the issues, or doing anything else about the issue of sweatshops, or any other ethical issue.

Somewhere back in this thread was a question along the lines of "do I care more about my own children than others elsewhere" - well actually, yes I do.

I would fight tooth and claw for "my own", they come first before any charitable actions I can afford. TBH my donations and fundraising go to one particular UK charity as opposed to overseas aid, but that's because of personal experience with the charity.

We've always trawled the charity shops, car boot sales, Freecycle etc, teenagers use Primark to spend their part-time work money and although we would all like to have up-market clothing (better quality usually), it's just not possible so we get on with it, no big deal.

I totally agree with others that not buying from certain shops will not help the child labour situation, and simply force them into other probably worse ways of making some money. Not sure what the answer is, unfortunately, but I do know that my own children still come first.

babyb - dishcloths? Wither washing pots by hand with ethically sourced Saharan sand?

Would it be that simple? If we all stopped buying cheap clothes would all the child labourers suddenly be sent to school, get fed nutritious meals, have happy, carefree lives and become doctors/lawyers/etc? No, they wouldn't. I don't pretend to know what the answer is.

I would love to be able to shop 100% ethically but I can't afford it all the time. Sometimes I do treat myself but more often than not I am rooting round Primark or in the local charity shops. I have a child to clothe who seems to go through clothes as fast as I buy them so what is the 'ethical' solution to that?

Oh and my local Tesco has a 'locally produced' promotion on the end of each aisle with things made and grown in the UK - the scoundrels!

Hello

Think someone asked this question before but am really genuinely confused - just looked on War on Want's link and Primark are coming out quite well...???

Can OP or anyone else whose looked into this clarify?? Also didn't that tv doc on Primark child labour end by saying boycotting wasn't the answer?

I do try to do the right things (and am in fortunate position of it being relatively easy for me to do that financially) but sometimes am just crap and don't - and sometimes also am confused (as above!) about what right thing to do really is....

Hi Tholeon, that was me last night (think my post is on page 9). I am genuinely confused as well, but no one in the know has been back on here since, so still .

I have asked too but I guess it is easier to boss the plebs shopping at Primark around than it is to actually give some constructive advice.