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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to not give a toss that Moat was tasered?

162 replies

DetectivePotato · 21/07/2010 20:24

May be a sensitive issue so I appologise if it upsets anyone.

Have looked at the front of todays paper and Moats family are paying for a 2nd inquest because they think he was killed by taser.

I am sorry (actually I'm not) but I don't give a flying fuck if the police tasered him.

He killed someone and seriously wounded 2 others. He went on the run and he could have hurt/killed many more people. What were the police suppose to do? Offer him a cuppa and a sit down to talk about his troubles? He clearly showed that he hated the police, he could have shot many more of them. What choice did they have but to try and disarm him.

FFS!!!!!!!!

OP posts:
sarah293 · 22/07/2010 07:59

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5MoreMinutesPlease · 22/07/2010 07:59

it makes me sick to see the word underclass is used repeatedly in this thread.

sarah293 · 22/07/2010 08:00

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OrmRenewed · 22/07/2010 08:03

galetti - I agree. Some compassion is needed for the man's family. How would anyone else feel if it was their son or brother. It's tragic. The entire thing.

BalloonSlayer · 22/07/2010 08:22

Riven I think it is wrong to ignore it when someone starts spouting the sort of things daftpunk does. Disgusting opinions ought to be challenged.

sonostanca · 22/07/2010 08:28

Is the point here not more that if he were tasered, how could he have shot himself? Which raises the question of whether the police shot him?

FioFio · 22/07/2010 08:31

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valiumSingleton · 22/07/2010 08:32

I'm not outraged on his family's behalf either I have to say.

He had killed three people and still had a gun in his hand. What do people expect?! If he'd killed a fourth person, there'd be an inquest into why he hadn't been tasered.

BeenBeta · 22/07/2010 08:40

The fundamental basis of our law, our society and our freedoms is the everyone has the same protections. Regardless of who they are and what they may or may not have done.

The relatives of Mr Moat have a right to know that he was treated in a lawful way and exactly how and why he died. We also have a right to know that. The police/authorties also should be keen and willing to have all the facts in the public domain.

The most important point of all is that Mr Moat's victims need people to undersand and to know without any equivocaton that what happened to them was unlawful and indefensible and what happened to Mr Moat was lawful and legitimate force was used. That distinction needs to be clearly made and proved in public by a neutral and unbiased investigation.

If it turns out Mr Moat was not treated lawfully then society needs to curtail and control the powers of the police to prevent innocent people becoming accidental victims in future.

sarah293 · 22/07/2010 08:41

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GiddyPickle · 22/07/2010 08:41

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StealthPolarBear · 22/07/2010 08:52

lol FioFio, was that before or after he fed him chicken?

LilyBolero · 22/07/2010 08:59

The report I read said that the negotiators had indicated to the police that Moat was about to pull the trigger. They knew this by the language he was using; "If I gave myself up I would rot in jail", "Tell my kids I love them". They therefore had 2 options.

  1. Let him pull the trigger.
  2. Tazer, and hope that he was incapacitated to an extent that they could get the gun off him and SAVE HIS LIFE.

The police were the legends and the heroes I think in this situation - they spent hours trying to save a man who had vowed to kill policement, armed with a shotgun.

GiddyPickle · 22/07/2010 09:02

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Original poster
DetectivePotato · 22/07/2010 09:15

"They didn't ask for any of this and they have lost a loved one."

I know they probably want answers etc, but I don't get why they care so much now. They didn't see or speak to him for a good few years, yet now they are so concerned. I know it must be hard when its a family member, but they had cut him out years ago for reasons that haven't been made public.

Oh and 'nice' to see occludo has pooped up again spouting total crap like on another recent thread. Do fuck off.

OP posts:
EightiesChick · 22/07/2010 09:26

YANBU. The police seem to have made the most generous decision they could in tasering him rather than shooting him. He was a dangerous murderer who wanted to die and was hoping the police would kill him. Frankly, it's astonishing that it didn't end more controversially than this, in a shootout with a massive dispute over who fired the critical bullet. Thank goodness at least that has been avoided.

I have total contempt for the view that Moat had somehow been mistreated. He chose to become a violent criminal on the basis of his appalling attitude of ownership towards his ex-partner. On the whole I am glad we, the public, don't have to pay via taxes for him to stay in prison for years, no doubt becoming a 'legend' in the process .

I can see the argument that having an inquest attempts to address any suspiciouns people have and to make the police's actions clear so that they are exonerated. However, people believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence; the kind of people sticking up for Moat are also the kind of people who will disbelieve any findings that clear the police of blame, and just say 'Ah, well, it's all been covered up'.

melikalikimaka · 22/07/2010 09:47

Stop knocking the police. They did what they could to stop him. All you who are defending Moat should've had him living next door to YOU!

daftpunk · 22/07/2010 09:52

Agree BeenBeta;

The fact that Moat was from the "underclass" (whatever that means) doesn't mean his death should be ignored...I know most of you would like him chucked in a hole somewhere and forgotten about.

Maybe the reason he died alone and in obvious mental agony was because he was let down by society....but who gives a shit about him? no one.

Original poster
DetectivePotato · 22/07/2010 10:00

Didn't he assault a child? Wasn't that the reason he went to prison in the first place?

Yes, what mental agony he was in, knowing his GF (or ex) not quite sure, was with another bloke. He was a controlling thug. I am glad we are not paying good money to house this thug in prison, for him to be realised again one day.

OP posts:
Mingg · 22/07/2010 10:10

BeenBeta - agree

Fibilou · 22/07/2010 10:23

"I think that possibly YANBU, but I'm a bit uneasy about the everyday use of tasers on the general population."

I'm sorry but this is a joke ! We have around 50 AFOs in our force and they are the only ones licensed to use taser. There are very strict guidelines on when taser can be used and authority has to be given by the OPS1 firearms incident commander before they can even use them. The guidelines are the same as for when they can use their firearm. OPS1 commanders go on exhaustive training, it's not just a question of using them willynilly. I have only been involved in one incident where firearms authority was graned - when I was about 10 feet away from a man who was still armed with a handgun and I had a member of the public with me. Even in a "bulletproof" stab vest that is pretty terrifying, I can assure you. Anyway my point is that the likelihood of you looking down the fire end of a taser is minute and you'd have been given plenty of warning - it's not like they are allowed to just whip it out and fire at will

Authority Taser is classed as "less lethal force" adn even if Moat was tasered itis unlikely that he woud have been killed.

And in a personal capacity he blinded an unarmed officer, killed a man and seriously injured someone else. His death will have prevented him injuring or killing anyone else and will save the taxpayer millions in prison costs. Good riddance imho

daftpunk · 22/07/2010 10:26

Detectivepotato;

I don't want to have a conversation with someone who is "happy" about another person being shot dead in these circumstances.

"The measure of a civilization is how it treats it's weakest members"...

maybe you should work on that thought..

sarah293 · 22/07/2010 10:32

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aseriouslyblondemoment · 22/07/2010 10:33

YANBU far from it
i think that the police handled the situation extremely well
the man deserves no sympathy whatsoever
my sympathy lies with the victims

HowAnnoying · 22/07/2010 10:34

Hey daftpunk

would you have so much sympathy with Moat if he was an illegal immigrant? I mean I would have thought they are the weakest members.....