to think it's not funny to hit a child so that you leave a handprint?

[lecce]

I was shocked by a colleague today who was telling an anecdote about slapping her dd5 who had been refusing to follow instructions. She said she was a bit taken aback to see her handprint on the girl's shoulder.

I don't agree with smacking in any case but what really got to me was the tone she was using, it was so flippant and there was lots of eye-rolling as if to say, "What am I like?!"

I've never hit my dc, though I've often shouted at them louder than I ever intended to, and if I ever did lose it and leave a mark on them I would be mortified and not laughing about it in front of several people.

I felt awkward as she was expecting us to reciprocate with the laughter but I didn't find it funny. Don't you have to hit nuite hard to leave a print?

I know it's judgy, but AIBU?

It's called child abuse to hit a child this hard, it's assault.

Did you smack her so that you left a hand print? Presumably she would find that hilarious. Children are little people so, just like if we were hit, its not funny, its abusive.

if she has left a mark she has broken the law.

not funny.

Of course YANBU. She is to hit a child that hard.

You should contact the NSPCC and ask them for advice about this to be honest, she thinks it's funny! That poor child, what else has she been doing to her?

that is disgraceful. How did everyone else react?

YANBU

YANBU, its disgusting. I did smack DS once when he kicked me hard whilst changing his nappy. No where near hard enough to leave a mark but my feelings of shame and guilt were awful. I certainly wasn't laughing about it.

YANBU
She was breaking the law.

Someone made a joke about social services and there was some awkward laughter. I was so shocked I didn't say anything. Tbh,I've been wondering whether I was being silly and children's skin marks easily but that's not right is it? She was out of order. In her defense, the whole reason she was telling the story was that she was shocked to have made a mark so maybe that suggests she hasn't done it before?

I have a friend who sees her socially so may speak to her about it.

I really would seek advice from the NSPCC. She may have used this as a way of asking for help, you need professional advice on this though.

yanbu, and tbh I would have said something, and did to a colleague (pre dd's) when she said she had had 'no option but to smack (ds he was about 2) after he kept touching the oven'
I (loudly) commented 'I bet you had a lot of options before resorting to abuse'

ALL the parents rounded on me saying 'you have no idea what it's like' etc and I was ostracised for days. I woudl do it again in a heartbeat.

It is, as other people have mentioned, illegal.

Social services/ safeguarding should be aware - your piece of information might be only one piece of a very big jigsaw of lots of other people who have concerns about the family.

I know that is would be very hard to do this - alternatives would be contacting the health visitor or GP or school or NSPCC etc. to get advice as others have mentioned.

But, however hard it is, the child is unable to protect themselves. I hope it's a one off and a horrible mistake.

what do you mean? a red mark that faded in a few minutes or a bruise that stayed for days

From what she said the mark lasted longer than a few minutes as it was later when dressing the child that she saw that the mark was there. It only happened this morning apparently so don't know if there will be a bruise as such.

I'm thinking and hoping it was a one-off and certainly want to speak to my friend who knows her better.

I hate it when people boast about smacking their children at all, I would have been seriously offensive if someone had joked and laughed about smacking their children and leaving a mark.

We recently had friends of my PIL round for dinner whilst the PIL were staying. These friends are the same age as DH and I and have young children. The wife continually commented how well behaved my DS2 was and how her children would never behave if they had friends round for dinner. Then a bit later she was 'showing off' about smacking her children, both under age 6. I was gobsmacked at the way she was saying it, and I have to admit to being quite rude and telling her that her parenting clearly wasn't effective enough if she had to resort to smacking. (aside from the fact that had the smacking worked she wouldn't have had to complain about her poorly behaved children all night!). My DH was and I know I was rude, but I have no idea why someone would be proud of hurting a child.

I am ashamed to admit I once smacked my ds on the bottom and it left a red mark

I will never forget the anger, humiliation and hurt in his little face

I was deeply sorry and ashamed of myself. It was not like me to lose it so badly but I had an abusive childhood (for which I recieve counselling) and it was a tough patch as I had an under one year old as well.

It is wrong and abusive. At that moment I was a child abuser, I abused my ds.

I wept and held him close and told him sorry over and over. I told him I was so very wrong to hit him and that it was not his fault. I let my anger get hold of me, I took out my problems on him.

Whether he has been damaged I do not know but he will always know it wasn't his fault.

But no mothers are perfect. It is not black and white. In that moment if someone saw me what would they think? Yet it was a low point. Generally I am patient. I stay at home with my ds, read to him, talk to him, bake with him and take him to playparks. I read obsessively about abusive childhoods, desperate not to repeat mine. I love him for who he is and I try so hard not to invalidate his feelings. Ours is generally a happy home life, my dh is wonderful.

Is it not possible that in the context of this we can make mistakes? Big mistakes? But can't we also put them right?

I am truly in awe of those who have never smacked or lashed out. However mine was an emotionally abusive childhood - cruel words, invalidation of feelings, not being loved for who you are but for what you achieve. I could never be accused of such crimes against my children but we should not underestimate how shouting and withdrawal of love can damage just as much

Oh rose. That must have been so hard for you to write.

But Rose - the very very big difference is that you did not go and 'joke' about it with work colleagues, nor did you only notice the mark when you changed their clothes.

I am so sorry to hear that you had such a difficult childhood. You sound like such a wonderful Mummy to your little boy.

Roseability every parent makes mistakes. Children are not damaged by those mistakes when the general climate of their family is loving and when the parent takes responsibility for the mistake. There is evidence that parental mistakes help children to learn forgiveness and to realise that their own failings are human.

Try not to obsess about abusive parenting. You can trust yourself.

I think your collegue needs parenting classes. Or maybe anger management classes.

How is she going to parent her son when he is stronger than her and hits back? All that smacking does is teach children its OK to hit.

I don't think a child should be taken into care because of one mistake by otherwise loving parents. Lots of parents hit their children once in a blue moon. Provided they KNOW they have done wrong and are acutely ashamed there is rarely much of a problem.

Prehaps the biggest worry if that the collegue find it funny.

When my DD (2.5) snatched her baby sisters pooey nappy and tried to run with it, I panicked and smacked it out of her hand. Her response was absolute disbelief - "Mummy, you HURT me! Say sorry!". Of course I apologised to her but her response showed me that it is unnatural to hit your children. They may learn to cower over it as it escalates, but her natural indignation showed me that it is an ineffective parenting tool even if you don't think it is abusive (which I do, btw).

I wonder if she was boasting about it to assuage her guilt, sort of confessing? Seems a bit weird otherwise.

I have had two of my sisters smack my children. I find it absoulutely disgraceful. I have never put a hand on them but for them to think it's ok to hit my children, is absolutely beyond belief.

AFAIK it's illegal to hit a child and leave a mark.

No I would never have joked about it. I rememeber being worried he would tell someone at his playgroup that morning, I was so ashamed

However I would never have told him not to tell anyone. I rememebr thinking 'if he does tell someone and if the mark is bad enough to still be there as proof of my awfulness, I will just admit it and face the consequences'. I did talk to my dh and MIL and friends about it. No one joked that is fro sure, but they were supportive. I just needed a break and some support. I struggle wth motherhood sometimes and I will admit that freely.

The anger and hurt he felt was justified and right, and I tried to allow him this. As someone said. How would I feel if a giant came and slapped me on bare skin, in a place so suggestive of vulnerability and humiliation. It makes me well up to think of it

I feel strongly that children should never feel they can't speak out about the injustices done to them, even by parents. That is why I am facing difficulties now in my thirties - I had to keep silent as a child. I don't rememebr being overtly told not to tell but I was coerced subtley into a 'never talk about the family' code of silence

What worries me more than the smack is that if this woman is joking about it, has she made a joke of it to her child? Thus completely invalidating their feelings about it?

Or is she a desperate woman awkwardly crying for help?

Either way I implore you to be what I call an enlightened witness for the child (Alice Miller). Speak to the mother or anyone appropiate and just check the child is okay. But bare in mind this woman may also need help, be hurting. Do you speak to the child at all? Could they turn to you?

Ultimately the child comes first and as a society we need to speak up for innocent little people more. Joking about child abuse in such a way just perpetuates the idea that it is okay somehow. It is not and the look on my ds face that day proved it beyond all doubt to me

She feels guilty and by telling you in a jokey way she is seeking absolution.

IMO.

I think there isn't so much of a legal issues here, as it might fall under 'reasonable chastisement', which is the term used, I think. However I think she's a right idiot if she thinks slapping a child for cheeking her is ever going to work.

I predict an escalation of hostilities.