to think it's not funny to hit a child so that you leave a handprint?

[lecce]

I was shocked by a colleague today who was telling an anecdote about slapping her dd5 who had been refusing to follow instructions. She said she was a bit taken aback to see her handprint on the girl's shoulder.

I don't agree with smacking in any case but what really got to me was the tone she was using, it was so flippant and there was lots of eye-rolling as if to say, "What am I like?!"

I've never hit my dc, though I've often shouted at them louder than I ever intended to, and if I ever did lose it and leave a mark on them I would be mortified and not laughing about it in front of several people.

I felt awkward as she was expecting us to reciprocate with the laughter but I didn't find it funny. Don't you have to hit nuite hard to leave a print?

I know it's judgy, but AIBU?

Roseability, I really admire your honesty and the fact that you have overcome so much to be a loving parent to your ds.

I have spoken to my friend who knows this woman and she was shocked but adamant that the woman does not regularly hurt her dd. Apparantly she does smack quite regularly but not, according to my friend, in a way likely to mark. She says she's been with her several times when she has smacked and disagrees with it, not least because it's ineffective. My friend has actually told her she doesn't agree with smacking but the woman argues that it teaches a lesson and it's ok because she gives 3 warnings first. [hmmm]

I think posters who said she feels guilty may have something, maybe it was a kind of nervous laughter, still totally inappropriate, obviously.

Having spoken to my friend, I suppose my main worry now is that this woman has been relying on 'tapping', it's not working (what a surprise) and now the smacking could be escalating. My friend is going to speak to her, she's quite a straight-talking woman so hopefully will get through to her.

Those who are saying its illegal.. what is and is not illegal when it comes to punishing children..? I really dont know. I have smacked my dd a handful of times when she has been doing something dangerous. between ages 3 and 5.
My DSD mum smacks her and she is nearly 12.. which doesnt sit well with me for some reason, I feel like its degrading because shes older.. no idea why i think that when I dont think so for 5 year old.

Happy to have others explore my mind set...!

P.s the smacks on my 5 year old have been light slaps on bottom leaving no marks!!

I'm not a lawyer, but I wrote our departmental child protection policy, so I have a little knowledge of the law.

As I see it -

If you use an implement to hit a child, that probably falls foul of the law unless there's a very compelling reason (which I can't think of here).

If it's your own hand and on their bottom, and does not bruise, you probably won't be arrested.

But I say again, it's pointless as it doesn't work unless we're talking a life or death situation (eg young child wilfully trying to run across major road risking life of self and others, for example).

i can count the number of times on one hand i have smacked my children, ,
and once i left a mark, i was mortified.

I once smacked DS so hard I left a red hand-print on his bare bottom. He was three. I have no excuse, I was under a lot of stress and I let it take over.

I can identify exactly with how Roseability said she felt-that absolute horror at what you've just done, the guilt, the crying, the apologising. The hurt and confusion on his little face broke my heart, and I would never, ever let myself lose control like that again.

My father used to hit me with a slipper when I was naughty, and I can still remember the fear I felt when I knew I was 'for it'

For those questioning whether it is 'really' illegal: I went to child protection training recently, and we were told there that leaving a mark is illegal, as is any hit above the neck.

pirateparty

Leaving a mark like a red mark that fades a second later or as in a mark that stays?

My personal opinion is that you are being way ott about this.
An ocassional smack (even if leaves a red mark) for doing something 'naughty' is way way way different to a child who suffers pysical abuse....worlds apart!
My guess is your colleague was feeling awful and was laughing about it to try and seek reassurance from others that she shouldn't feel bad. That she didn't get this reassurance should have been a bit of a blow to her and hopefully made her think carefully about her actions. People often laugh to cover up embarrasment!
If this was something that was happening consistently or she deliberatly set out to humiliate/ hurt the child then by all means report her. If it was a result of a momentary lapse of 'I can't cope' smack that rarely happens then by reporting her you are going to cause an awful amount of distress to HER and her DD uneccesarily.
I don't smack my kids as a rule, I don't think it's effective. BUT I have lost the plot a few times in the past 9 years and smacked ds bum! I would be aghast if a 'friend' reported me for abuse!!
I would make sure you are SURE about what you are reporting before you report!

Words of wisdom there from Jendot.

By confusing routine family incidents with abuse we feed the ever growing beast that is the child protection industry, with all its complex vested interests, and do truly abused children a great disservice.

Another person who experienced physical abuse as a child here.

Smacking itself is not necessarily abuse! Smacking shouldn't be done in anger either, but might be perfectly appropriate for you and your child to teach them things like, to use the example above, not to touch the hot oven.

I am absolutely stunned at the poster who "loudly commented" about 'abusing' that toddler!

I read this OP wondering whether the woman speaking was actually feeling guilty about it, trying to make light of it to make her feel better, and was needing support rather than the judgement that instead headed her way. Perhaps she needed to know she was not the only one who had ever done this to get over her mortification and guilt that others have described here.

MrsGangly, sorry if I stunned you, but I think a parent laughing about hitting their child abhorrent and sickening.
If someone says (as a few people on this thread have done) that they hit their child, and felt awful/it was alast resort/end of tether type thing, then that is one thing, but to laugh about premeditatedly (is that a word?) hitting your small child is another thing entirely. I admit I didn't make this distinction in my post, but I still stand by never letting it go uncommented.
The vast amjority of parents who have smacked have done so unthinkingly and feel terrible about it afterwards, if you think so little of it that you feel no shame in telling your work colleagues then you should be pulled up on it imo.

I'm sorry but those saying that smacking your child is abuse are being quite frankly ridiculous.

There is a difference between a smack and a beating.

It is not illegal to smack your child.

It is a parental choice which parents do not have the right to judge others over.

I think you are being very judgemental and the fact that she was talking about it and laughing suggests she felt guilty.

If she was abusing her child she would not be boasting about it like that.

agree with Lady.........if she truly was an abuser she would be very secretive about it, not mentioning it in front of friends.

All talk of calling the NSPCC etc is ridiculous IMO. How many of us were smacked as children? I certainly was (and quite frequently I believe!) I wasn't "damaged" by it and still have a good relationship with my parents.

I agree that smacking should be an absolute last resort and shouldn't leave bruises. I have only ever smacked DD1 once when she launched her shoe at her newborn sisters head (at close range) and I lost my temper. I felt soooo guilty afterwards but I needed to make sure it would never happen again.

Thanks for all the opinions. I have no intention of reporting her and agree that to do so would cause a lot of heartache for her and her dd. As I said, having spoken to someone who knows her better than I do, I really do think she is not an abuser. I don't agree with smacking but obviously we don't report people whose parenting we don't agree with and it's not illegal anyway.

As I said in my op, I sometimes get
annoyed and shout at my dc in a way that I truly regret afterwards. I'm sure on the worst of these occasions someone overhearing could easily judge me. I've never sworn at or threatened my dc so don't think anyone would be wanting to report me but I certainly wouldn't be winning any parent of the year awards on such occasions. What I am trying to say is that I know smacking isn't necessarily the only parenting 'crime' and is not the only thing parents do that they really shouldn't, but no one is perfect.

I think when I posted this, I expected more of the kind of responses that have appeared in the second half of the thread and the early posters mentioning abuse made me question my initial response. Thinking about it, and discussing it with someone else, I think she probably did feel guilty and perhaps wanted reassurance. Quality - nothing she said gave me the impression that the smacking was premeditated or that she intended to leave a mark.

I bruise incredibly easily (I'm forever catching my arm on door handles and ending up with bruises that look like thumbprints as if someone's grabbed my forearms quite hard). I've got nothing physically wrong with me, it's just something that I've always had as part of how I am. Working in a primary school I forever have a line of bruises on my legs at small-person table height as well!

My mum smacked me once when I was small (I was a right little nowt to deal with, I'll admit that) and because of how easily I bruise, she left a perfect handprint shaped mark for a good fair while at the top of my leg. Nothing sinister about it, whatever I was doing must have been incredibly out of line to justify it as she was never a "smacky" mother - but the massive guilt trip she had from it, meant she never smacked me again. Boy oh boy did I capitalize on that growing up I'll admit!

Just putting it from the other perspective a little - it may not be some kind of massive abuse like you're suspecting (obviously if it was recurring or anything like that). She's probably "laughing" at it out of some kind of nervous guilt - my mum will admit to this day (and I'm into my 30s) about the guilt she felt because she marked my leg when she did - it really shook her up.

I don't think it's funny to hit a child hard (and don't agree with smacking children at all). However, I do think some of the reactions on this thread are a bit OTT. My poor mum would have been in and out of jail for years if this attitude had reigned when I was a kid. .

swan she could have shared a cell with my Mum! Smacked as a child but definitely not abused, in fact I felt very much loved and knew if I got a smack I had been very naughty or disobedient!

way ott reactions here - lets separate the use of smacking as discipline which is a parental choice and child abuse.

lecce, I wasn't talking about the OP in my second post, I was explaining why I had said what I did when I did.

I still stand by not just shurgging off someone talking about smacking their child, no it's not 'abuse' but it is illegal, unkind and, for the most part, signals a lack of control of the parent and I don't think refusing to accept an occasional smack as a valid parental choice is ott.

this is disgraceful, whether it was a one off or not, your colleague hurt her child, and like another poster said, would she find it as funny if you hit her and left a mark? to joke about it to pther people like she was proud is even worse. i have a 2.3 DD and i smacked the back of her hand once as she kicked me in the face and broke my glasses as i was changing her nappy. it didnt leave a mark and it certainly didnt seriously hurt her she didnt cry or anything and even then i felt terrible i cried shamefully that id done this. i was hit alot when i was a child and i always swore id never be like that. it isnt difficult to sit and talk to a child like an actual person that they are and explain why what they did was naughty.

I agree its probably best to let your friend speak to her to see if its a one off, or if she is needing some help. It does no good to keep calling in the government and social services, as if we cant run our own lives. If that woman is harming her child in a continuous way, i would hope fellow mothers and neighbours would then step in and take action,

I smacked ds once on the hand and the look on his little face will haunt me to the day i die. Its a total lack of control to smack, even if not done in the heat of the moment. It screams that you have no clue how else to deal with the child/situation. But making things illegal just seems to push them underground, and then where does that help the kids?

JemAndEllie

Thing is - you have the luxary of being able to defend why its ok for you to smack your own child and not for the OP's colleague to.

She doesn't.

As I've already said, I don't agree with smacking children. But suggesting the OP ring social services is . Apart from anything else, they have real abuse cases to deal with and don't need their time wasted with things like this. I think a bit of perspective here..

lady, it is not ok for me to defend my reasons as its not ok for me to do it im deeply ashamed, but were not all perfect. it was the fact she made a joke of it the got me riled.

foureleven - I think it's if it leaves a mark that lasts longer.

I understand the comments about it being OTT to phone ss - and once the OP has added more context and said what she has done that may change the situation. However, the reason many children who are being abused (and that is an unknown number) are not being protected is that many people have a small part of a jigsaw, which when put together shows a picture of abuse which is not visable from one experience. And that is often a reason these children are failed - because no-one thinks what they know is important or 'that bad'.

I'm not saying that child is being abused, but they may be, and the fact that the mother chose to laugh about leaving a mark is disgusting whichever way you chose to look at it.

Lece I am ashamed to admit that I did that to my dd 3.4 in the past when in a tantrum, I went to my GP who put me in the right direction for help. We had a meeting at dd pre school about her lack of social communication, and I admitted it to the headmistress and dd teacher who was so understanding and is doing all they can to support us.

Mabey what your friend needs is not judgement, not all parents who smack should be likened to Baby P killers most of us are loving parents who are finding it hard to cope at times and go about it the wrong way. I am not saying smacking is right, no its not, mabey your friend needs help and support, mabey tell her to see her GP or talk to MIND.