To expect a Headteacher to see my point and show compasion and flexibility? When is a mobile phone NOT a mobile phone?

[Yorkshiremix]

So sorry if this is a bit long but I am in need of other opinions, whether I'm right or wrong please.

The background is that I am single mum and totally broke, I mean I'm lucky if there is a spare £5 or £10 left each week after food and bills (not including clothes or clubs or anything nice). So paying for my daughter to go away on the year 6 residential trip has been a major hardship for us, but I did it and she was looking forward to her first holiday in 6 years.

Letters had come home stating no mobile phones were allowed but the kids could take MP3's and cameras at their own risk. I have never allowed my daughter to have a mobile phone, not only can we not afford it but I feel strongly that they are not necessary at her age. A couple of years ago my son (age 21) gave his sister his old mobile phone so that she could use it as an MP3 as she had been asking for an ipod and I couldn't afford it. She has been happily using this as a camera and MP3 now for the past 2 years, never again asking for an ipod. So knowing that it wasn't working as a mobile and was the only camera that we had, as I really couldn't afford even a disposable along with the developing fee, I went to the headteacher and explained the situation asking her to allow my daughter to take it. She refused.

I went home and after thinking about it I became increasingly frustrated, so I sent her an email, telling her that, as it was impossible to use it as a mobile phone without a valid sim card, (it has a very old sim in it to enable use, that can neither call out or call in, in fact if you access the number of the sim and ring it, some random bloke answers, as the sim is that old the number has been reassigned) and therefore it was just a piece of equipment for use as an MP3 and camera and as she was allowing children to take MP3's and cameras, I would therefore have to disagree with her decision and would be allowing my daughter to take it as I had already explained to her that we couldn't afford anything else.

When they arrived, my daughter sent me a letter which didn't reach me until the morning that they were due home, begging me to call her, very upset, the headteacher had taken it from her when they arrived and had refused to let her call me. When I collected her, she was still upset, she was the only child without a camera and had no pictures of her holiday. The head gave it back to her 10 mins before they arrived home, she wouldn't even let her listen to her music on the 3 hour bus journey home. My daughter informs me that many children had taken an ipod touch which, with the right application, can even send emails within a wi-fi area. It was totally impossible for my daughters to be used as a phone.

I am furious, I told the headteacher so. I asked her if she had even tried to make a call on it or call the phone? She said she hadn't. I asked her if she had confiscated any other child's MP3 or camera? She said no she hadn't. I asked her why she allowed all the other kids to have ipods that can email then? She said that she wouldn't be next year (very immature).

Am I being unreasonable to be upset by this? Was she being narrow-minded, lacking in common sense and compassion? In this day and age of technology, why can't she see that a mobile phone can be used in other capacities without being able to make calls, are we supposed to just fill up landfills with all this technology rather than put it to use elsewhere?

Really, what harm did it do anyone? The only one upset on that trip ended up being my daughter. I have demanded an apology, but she refuses.

But then by allowing one person to have what is essentially a phone, the others that have afforded a camera and mp3 could argue that they have been discriminated against.

Agree that banning the lot is easier.

OP, did the whole of your dds year go on the trip?

My Ds has just been on a 4 day residential . No phones or ipods or mp3 but cameras were allowed . He didnt take one bloomin photo . lol

I feel really sorry for OPs DD, I do think that it was unreasonable that she wasn't allowed to use the phone as a camera, it'd be obvious if she was talking on it as she'd have it up to her ear, equally it'd be just as obvious that she was only using it as a camera when she was holding it out taking pictures!

I think making one child not have a camera when everyone else has one is really harsh, I'd be gutted if I couldn't provide something for my DD that really reduced her enjoyment of a holiday. Is it not bad enough that she's away from her mum and is being bullied? I can't help but have a bit of compassion even if OP did know she wasn't supposed to take a mobile.

I've only read OP - but am going to give my two cents worth anyway.

I think this headteacher has been a prize bitch and has punished your daughter for being from a fiscally challenged family. You made your point very well and she didn't want to know. I bet loads of the kids had camera, phone & MP3 player and it was no biggie for them to leave the phone at home.

Also I think the point that it was a phone (even if it wasn't working) and therefore banned is ludicrous in this day an age. Who can tell the difference between an itouch & an iphone anyway? The headteacher should have banned communication equipment or something. And she should have listened to your situation properly & talked with you.

I really feel for your daughter not having music on the bus when everyone else did, and not being able to take any photos. I was the kid from the skint family at school - and I understand why you are so upset about this. It's all very well saying share with a friend - but what if your friend isn't sharing with you?

I understand why you are upset and why your DD was upset. But I doubt the headteacher will ever apologise to you - best find a way to move on.

I hope your DD will be able to get copies of photos taken by her friends. It's not the same though.

Since when was it some sort of human right to have to have a camera? Nobody made the OP's dd not have a camera, as such. They just took away a mobile phone. According to the previously set down rules.

Toc, I am v ancient, and in my day (creaky voice) no-one had a camera anyway, so we didn't miss it.

Have some nice pics taken with the one shared family camera, I know what you mean, but I think it's a good thing for all of us to be able to enjoy things for their own sakes. A family party was all but ruined the other night because all anyone could think of was 'how will it look on FB'. I don't want to BE on bloody FB at a private family do, ffs!

YANBU. You were reasonable in your request and the HT was unreasonable and inflexible. Schools go on about the teacher-parent partnership but she was heavy handed with you despite your reasonable request - completely unnecessary. Yes, you disregarded what she said but as an adult that is your choice. Just because she's the head doesn't mean she should dictate everything; when someone makes a reasonable request she should listen. Schools are run by them for us, not some little hitler that says her word is law. She's the professional in this situation, you're the parent with all the emotions that that involves (you wanted your daughter to have the same experiences as the others with a camera and music for the journey). She should have looked at the bigger picture and put her pettiness aside and let it go. I'm not saying she should give in to everything but as a professional she needs to know when to pick her battles.

I went on my Yr6 residential 20yrs ago........

we ALL had camera' in my house - I used to have to use the ancient outside toilet or the neighbours when I was really tiny when my dad was developing his films in the bathroom (so getting on for 30yrs ago........)

My dad is approaching retirement age, in his 20's he travelled the world (firstly bus journey from London to Kathmandu, and then several years in the Merchant Navy). He has literally 1000's of slides that he took on his travels.

I have always known a home with a camera, it's as essential and normal to me to have at least one camera in the house as it is to have a electric kettle or a TV (neither of which we had when I was young)

OP being a single parents of two children myself I understand how frustrated you must be.

BUT the Head specifically said no mobile phones (working or not). After sending out her instructions to parents she cannot then bend the rules IYSWIM?

My 10 year old dd went to Brownie camp last summer and the instructions were no mobile phones but cameras and mp3 were allowed.

DD was not the only child who did not have an mp3 player. As for the camera I sent her with one of the cheap, nasty and useless cameras - just to save face. Nobody else knew her pics were going to turn out crap!

Your priority, I feel, is getting the bullying sorted.

dorie - if I was your DD I would have cried if my photos had come out crap because I'd been given a useless camera

She prefferred to have a useless camera that she could take pics (or pretend to) rather than sit on the sidelines without a camera, when everyone else was taking pics. Her choice. I don't have a problem with that!

Thank you all for your comments both YABU and YANBU.

I'm really not trying to teach my child that it is ok to go against school rules, she's a lovely, kind, clever kid, wouldn't hurt a fly and has never been in trouble at school. I just couldn't get my head around the fact that it was impossible for my daughter to use it as a phone and as far as we were concerned it was literally just a functional camera that she could use without us having to pay out any more money.

As for using a pound shop disposable, well as I said before, it is also the cost of getting them developed.

Regarding it not being so bad to not have any photos to remind you, well as this was her first holiday in a long time, I don't think it was too much to ask for her to be able to have a record of that, from her own perspective, rather than having to have copies of her friends pictures which were taken from their perspective.

As for pictures on the website, the school website has been down for weeks with no sign of it being back by the end of term so I doubt there will be any sign of pics on there before the year 6's leave in a week.

For those that asked, yes all the kids in her year attended and no I don't have any extended family, so couldn't borrow.

Re, the bullying being more important, we have tried to address this for a long time, to no avail, she is in a class with just 8 year 6 girls, as soon as one issue gets resolved, they pick on her for something else, there is always something, she is either too poor, too clever or too black in an all white middle class school in a small village, it never ends. Just very, very glad that she has managed to get into grammar school so she will be away from them next year and will be joining, what I hope, is a happier much more multi-cultural environment

Also, I really don't have a poor me attitude, I only stated that I was single and struggled to pay for the trip in order to help you all understand why we wanted to use the equipment we already had, rather than have to buy more.

Whilst I thank all of those that could see my point of view, I think that the general consensus on here is that IABU, this seems to be in general, for going against the head. I take that on board and will endeavour to uphold the rules from here on in...

BUT.. I guess there will always be that bit of rebel in me that wants to kick against establishments and rules that lack any amount of common-sense and flexibility, along with people in charge, who walk around with a stick up their arse!

Once again, thank you all for helping me to get perspective on this.

YABU. You completely over ruled the HT (although she was being a little over zealous and needs to get more up to date with modern technology!).

She was in charge on that trip and they were her rules.

Also, in the run up to such an important residential trip, having a parent questioning her every guideline is time consuming and draining.

OP I empathise with you totally. I think there should be a ban on all electronic equipment during school activities. Not because I struggle to keep up with the expense, but I think schools should be more resourceful when it comes to occupying children.

As for any pics your dd has missed out on, I wouldn't bother asking parents of the selfishbullyinglittlebrats-- children she went with. Coiuld you ask one of the nicer teachers whether they could e mail you some pics of the trip for your dd's memory box?

I know when my dd went to Brownie camp, Brown Owl was more than pleased to e mail me pics she had taken.

Oops sorry, I don't know what went wrong with strike out there!

I agree with Mojo. The head was being unreasonable, uncompassionate and, like the girls who threw your daughter's clothes in the bin , is bullying DD for being less well off. Horrid woman.

Sadly, though, you'll have to let that one lie as the rules (which she set) were on her side.

I might consider escalating the bullying issue, though, if poor DD has to put up with that sort of thing every day.

I don't think they should be banned - when they're staying away from home surely they're allowed some "down time" to relax and chill like they would at home. It's not like a day trip within normal school hours.

you porr dd imature headteacher that doesn't realise about inclusion and that inclused means for children that are poor.

if you are going to make dc not have electrical equipment - then stop it all

[dons flat cap, yanks on whippet's lead, hoikes trousers up to belly button]

in maaah day, we dint have things like mobile phones, and survived just fine.....

[shakes hair and falls back into rewardgirl mode]

I remember going on residential school trips (we're talking early 80s here) with a couple of walkmans between us (the rich ones, not me), and maybe a couple of battered cameras. Those that got the photos brought them in for the others to see and then we got copies done of the couple that we wanted for a few pence (usually the ones of us walking giggling next to the boy we fancied). The fun was more important.
I suspect your daughter was more distraught over having something confiscated than not actually having a camera unfortunately

As for being upset when she got back, I remember howling like a monkey into my mother's arms as soon as I got back from any trip, even though I always had a great time. Residential trips usually mean very little sleep due to excited kids being away from home for the first time.

"....some of us are born to take photos and a trip out without a camera is unthinkable.."

You aren't unique here, Tocc. Some of us avid snappers grew up to be quite er, sort of well known too. Certainly by the equivalent of Year 6 I had a small portfolio (aided, it has to be said by my documentary film maker of an aunt who was my mentor). But for all that, I could still cope with the idea that I wasn't always allowed to take my camera everywhere.

So I'm in the camp that says I'm more worried about the bullying than the lack of a camera. Even if the OP's dd is Annie Leibowitz in disguise.

Yorkshiremix - I was actually in the YABU camp (and still am TBH) but your last post was not only gracious but well thought out and BLOODY GREAT.

Well done you, for taking all views on board, for coming back to a pretty harsh thread (um I was a bit harsh - but I've got to be honest with you, the bullying shit? been there and that would have been what worried me, not the phone thing) and putting your point across so eloquently.

I think that I understand about the whole "kicking against authority" thing too - the awful thing about being a parent is that sometimes, sometimes, we have to just shut up and put up. I think that when you put your points across to the headteacher - and that point was not taken? You should have left it.

Anyway - I'm so sorry to hear about your DD's horrible time WRT the bullying. Still New school, New start.

Wishing you and yours the best.

Second that.

Gloria - I want you to namechange to GloriaSlut please. (It makes me laugh)