to absolutely hate the anti GP/doctor bashing mentality on MN?

[macdoodle]

When most if not all the doctors/GP's I know personally and professionally have a lot of training, and are doing the best they can, despite ridiculous government rules and beuarocracy, and dont get paid a fortune, far from it!

In fact I know IANBU, so much so, that I am taking a break from MN because the lot of you dr bashing makes me feel slightly ill, and some of those calling their GP's twats make me feel so angry I may say something I will regret

and of course I worded my OP very carefully, so I no IANBU to hate the antidr sentiment, I am perfectly entitled to hate it and vent about it here, as you lot have made perfectly clear

Hi AF, I'm ok ta, pretty busy,stressy week, ex being a twat (now that is a correct use of the word), hence this hitting a nerve

Of course not all GP's are bad just like not all nurses are angels - something else the media seem to want to convince us of.

My old GP was lovely and I really didn't want to move practices - eg he phoned me one evening after I'd taken baby ds2 to hospital to make sure he was ok - defintely beyond what he needed to do.

Equally I had wonderful nurses when ds2 was in NICU who were kind, efficient and very lovely.

I do think a lot of the bad feeling is because of how contracts with GP's have been negotiated especially regarding out of hours work. There is undoubtedly a perception that GP's get paid a lot - DM always quoting £250k which I know isn't the case for the vast majority - but do less work than they used to.

The thing is I'm sure lots of people recognise the human body isn't an exact science but alot of the bad feeling on here is not always about diagnosis but about bedside manner. A Gp that listens puts you forward for the correct tests and does all he/she can to achieve a correct diagnosis is what people want. People do not want to walk in and be made to feel like a time waster or no listened to. A good bedside manner goes a long way and I feel many Gps are lacking this.

In the same way as a teacher who knows her stuff but can't teach, if you what I mean.

I think MrsC2010 has hit the nail on the head to be honest.

No matter what you do, if you put a lot of effort into it and then find people stereotype negatively it's hard to not take it personally. You'll also find a lot of the people dissatisfied with 'average care' jumping on the bandwagon of those with legitimate experiences.

I do work in the NHS, and have friends/family who also work hard within it. I would defend it in any argument - however, I also recognise that nothing is perfect and that incompetence, rudeness and general bad practice can be found in any job, and I think peoples concerns should be treated with respect no matter the status of qualification.

You do your bit to prevent that by being good at your job, not by defending those who aren't.

Penth - no - their practice income is a lot more than that - I'm talking about dispensing practices which are more lucrative apparently.

Macdoodle - I'm sure your patients think you are a lovely GP. And I agree its silly to say all GP's/Dr's are twats - of course they're not.

They are very arrogant in my experience and I have several amongst our friends, my husband used to work in pharmaceuticals and many of them thought they knew more than him about his own products and despite the fact that most medical reps are medically qualified themselves.

When I consider the care and expertise we get, free at the point of need, I am constantly thankful. Recently I had a very nasty symptom that suggested breast cancer: I was seen by the GP, called by him at home that evening to reassure me and give me my hospital appointment, into hospital for an ultrasound, and out again with a clean bill of health, within 3 days. That is only one example of many.

Of course some are less good than others - FFS, they're humans aren't they? - and I've had encounters with unfriendly and brusque doctors, and some that perhaps were not sympathetic. But as a whole, I come away profoundly grateful for what we have.

All of this GP bashing based on one or two (admittedly very sad) experiences is unhelpful. I've lived in the developing world where medical care was near-impossible to get hold of unless you had access to money, and even then it was sketchy. Now that is something to complain of.

As I said I was surprised to hear a snort of derision by some mothers.

The last time I thought about medicine was how you need to be highly academic and with a touch of altruism to study medicine in the first place.

I did think wow what a decline in reputation.

(anecdotal of course)

Yes, ledodgy - it's interesting, isn't it? What people think of as "good practice" for a GP is - when all's taken into account - the vision of the old-fashioned country doctor who visited your house, took your temperature and had a cup of tea with you. Couldn't do a damn thing for you, health-wise, but appeared to listen to you and be sympathetic. I suspect people would be happy with worse health-outcomes if it was coupled with a more sympathetic bed-side manner.

Thing is, there are now hugely more people to treat in relation to GPs: there are 35,000 GPs. The population is 60,000,000. That's over 1700 patients per GP. Assuming that each of those patients sees the doctor just once a year, that's about 7 appointments' worth of visits each working day. The fact that most GP appointments are set at 15 mins suggests that people are making considerably more than one appointment a year.

The old-fashioned family doctor is just about impossible in most modern scenarios.

Agree Headbanger - I think the nhs is generally pretty fantastic.

I had DD last year by c-section - the surgeon, theatre staff etc were fantastic as they were with my previous 2 c-sections.

However there was one rather mean midwife on the ward who was pretty awful to everyone and unfortunately she's the one person I really remember. And she was the only not nice midwife I have ever encountered and all because I dared to query what one of the Dr's had said. The Dr went away and did further research but the midwife was very cross on the Dr's behalf - was most odd.

I guess its the old adage about if you get poor service you tell 10 people but if you get good service you may only tell 1.

OP, some people saddly have had really bad experiences with doctors/Gps and they do post about what their experience of them is.

If you have not yet done so, comehereyou will see that plenty of people have had a very good one too, to balance it out.

FWIW I have moved a lot of time arround UK in the last 15 years and the proportion of GPs I had who were not so nice was far smaller than the proportion of genuinly great ones. The main "problem" I have encountered was to not being listened too properly and being quite often patronised by the ones I refer to as "not so nice".

I think the problem is macdoodle is people feel there is a huge power divide between them and their gps. Often going to the gps means playing a careful game of almost cap doffing and subservience in order not to offend whilst trying to get oneself heard. Combine that with the patient being in the vulnerable situation - having an ill child or being ill oneself, so that if it goes wrong, or one feels not heard, or a diagnosis is wrong, or one feels patronised, then people need somewhere to vent. They can't vent to the practice - no one will hear them. So they vent here.

When I smashed my pelvis after being hit by a car at 13 I spent a torturous four hours being bullied by the doctor on duty in A&E telling me I was hysterical, there was nothing wrong with me, and trying to physically force me onto my feet. The pain and the fear from that incident has stayed with me since and I have a deep knot in my stomach every time I enter a hospital. I have had both good and bad experiences with doctors since. I have seen many positive accounts of doctors and the nhs here. But why shouldn't people being able to vent about bad experiences with doctors, when they feel they have to play the cap doffing game so carefully in the nhs system? Can you not see that it is the suppression of feelings of injustice coming out somewhere else?

I think you're right Penth - people don't realise how little time GP's have nowadays to see patients.

If I know I've got a few things to discuss - I tend to save them up as generally never anything urgent - I always request a double appointment and explain to the receptionist why.

My friend is always in trouble for spending too long with her patients - they probably love her but the practice manager does not.

Bloody hell I can't remember her last time I had 15 minutes with a dr! I understand that they haven't got time for a cuppa and a chat. However for some having a nicer attitude would go a long way.It doesn't take a long time to be respectful to people and show a little kindnes and it is the drs that do this that people want to go to. Gps see people at their most vulnerable and some need to remember this.

we pay tax
our tax pays for the NHS

ergo we are entitled to say when they get it wrong

I also praised very highly the hospotal staff I have dealt with and I have huge respect for the NHS in general

but some of them are crap and we reserve the right to say so

fucks me off this "all public sectorworkers are saints attitude"

Is it really an antidoctor mentality? I'd say it's lots of different sentiments -

Firstly some people who have had bad experiences and are understandably angry, vent their spleen on MN, find others who have had similar experiences and get some comfort and validation from that.

Secondly, a different group who will only go to the doctor if their foot is hanging off or they are bodily dragged there (that's me and DH. And my dad too funnily enough, who is a retired GP but cannot bear being a patient...)

Then some people who don't feel too strongly either way,but might post 'that's a really awful experience posterx hope you're feeling better now' to the first group

Then some who quite like their GP but aren't likely to post a thread about it?

traceybath same thing here - fantastic surgeon and team for emergency c section - will be always be hugely grateful to them - them hideous midwife who refused to help me breastfeed, took my baby away from me in observation ward because he was making too much noise, and then bottlefed him without my consent. When you are so vulnerable and someone does that it is a huge betrayal of trust. Medical staff do have a huge responsibility not to betray that trust.

YANBU- best not to engage in silly threads that wind you up

Better go back to sipping cocktails by your swimming pool which you have paid for by earning a 'fortune'-ha ha

I really don't get why people would begrudge a doctor what they earn. Sounds like a hard slog to me.

I think that "we pay tax/NI" argument only goes so far, TBH.

One bout of cancer and you've probably wiped out whatever "investment" you made in the NHS.

If we are to make an argument about making the NHS more answerable/democratic, etc., it can't really be made on the basis of how much we put in to it, as that could turn out to be a dangerous road indeed which could leave many people vulnerable or unheard.

The argument has to be made on the basis of what constitutes a civilised society.

And no: all public sector workers are not saints.

But users of public services are not all heroic whistle-blowers, either.

Like all preofessions there are good GP's and bad ones. My current GP is fab but I have had some dreadful ones in the past (one struck off for drug dealing) and my parents have one that doesn't give a shit (god forbid you want an appointment within a week and outside the hours of 10-2)

It's just that we are all exposed to GPs so we all have personal experience whereas we don't necessarily with bank managers, accountants, heart specialists etc

Off course you are entitled to complain if you receive bad treatment, rudeness etc. However you are only the entitled to be angry at Dr X, Nurse Y or other HCP Z. That is whoever happens to be the guilty party.

To use what 1 or 2 people have done to then start bashing the whole profession to which they belong is completely unreasonable and unfair.

I work in the NHS, I am not a GP and as I am only part time not earning that much at all. I try very hard to always be polite, efficient and recognise my limitations (i.e. referring people on when necessary) I have felt so demoralised recently that I would quit if I thought there was a chance of employment elsewhere.

How would the NHS bashers feel if the staff lumped all patients together in one group? It would lead to another bashing I think.

most GPs here are not much use unfortunately; they can't spot the signs for cancer, they don't refer patients to specialists (and when, eventually, they do, it's pften to late), they know A BIT of everything but not enough to give the best care/diagnosis. For years I've told my GP I had pain in my knee and hip and asked him to refer me to a specialist, he always said no, now I'm limping, saw a specialist who asked why on earth did it take me so long and I now need two operations on my hips.

Imo, GPs are ok to dispense paraceamol for mild flu, anything else should be dealt with by specialists.