To think banning the burka

[hairytriangle]

Is a waste of time? If people want to wear it then they will. Let them be!

You're a Catholic - what do I think of that?

I think nothing, it's a religion, not an item of clothing.

While you were in Ireland, did you avoid everyone in an Arran jumper and Sportscoat? Because that's what Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness always wore on telly....

BURKHA

NIQAB

It's a good job Catholics dress unopressively, eh?

I dont think anything about you being a Catholic - what ould you like me to think? Religion doesnt define you as a person, the same as what you choose to wear.

Whilst I really, really don't like what the burka appears to represent with regards to controlling women and the idea that only women should go to such lengths to preserve their modesty, I don't think banning it is right in a free and democratic country.

What about those women who will feel less able to go about their business freely if they cannot wear the burka?

Ahem. That would be unoppressively, obviously.

Yes tether the difference is huge isn't it.

catholic nun

Ho, ho, all Irishmen look like Val Doonican! [but that's a stereotype, isn't it?]

Back to reality!

I have something important to do now so I am saying, banning the burka would make it an issue and lead to more muslim women wearing it. I don't agree with them at all. End. Of.

I have only ever seen one lady in a Burka - she lives across the street from us and has recently moved from Afganistan. She has the most striking children I have ever seen. Her english isnt great but the other day DD fell over and she stopped to help her up. So she isnt a monster under the cloth, waiting for her chance to blow everyone up - she is a caring person who stopped to help my DD when two other people walked on by.

All Muslim women in a burka praying have a bomb strapped to them, to drive fear into the infidels is a rather stereotypical view too isn't it?

BTW I have two aunties who are nuns and they are the most serene, beautiful people of 92 and 88 years and yes, you can see every line of their hard work for others, written in their wonderful FACES!

I don't think banning any item of clothing can work. Personally I would ban short shorts, muffin top revealing tops, anything sweaty, anything smelly...

But joking aside I think burkha and niquab wearers should understand that in Western society face covering is generally considered unacceptable. No one is complaining about wearing a headscarf - but the full mask or just the eyeholes is rejecting participation in the day to day society of others.

There is a mother of one of dd's classmates who wears the full monty: every single mortal bit of her is covered. I totally accept that it is her personal choice (???? though when I see her walking three paces behind her husband) but I would object most strongly if she were a teacher/doctor/shop assistant...

I don't suppose many burkha-clad women have the desire (or the opportunity) to work, though. Although I do remember the kerfuffle over the teaching assistant who was quite rightly denied a post but took her case to a tribunal.

Patsystone that's exactly what I mean, like it or not, we end up targetting individuals who may end up being further persecuted, and the more closed off society becomes the worse it gets.

My SIL and I met some Saudi families on holiday in Dahab last year, the women always removed the front of their head coverings and pinned them back to speak to us as we chatted on the pool loungers about our kids playing.

Didn't even get one face from them about my sister in law, lying legs akimbo with her spaniels ears out. They didn't blink an eye. Made me boake though...

In a security situation everyone has to remove any facial covering. I don't think there are any special dispensations, bandages aside are there? I think you have the right to show your face to a female if you want?

orthodox jew

fundamentalist christian girls

more fundamentalist christians

I still haven't seen one argument on this thread that convinces me that men have the same deal as women.

While men might be required to dress modestly, it is not to anywhere near the same extent that women are. Loose fitting trousers and robes are simply not the same as this and I don't see how anyone can say they are.

And it's not just the different requirements when it comes to clothes that gets me, but other ingrained inequalities in fundamental countries, such as the fact the honour killings are always against women, adultery is most harshly punished against women, polygamy is only acceptable if you're a man, the sight of women walking behind their husband, etc, etc,

Again, I can't stress this enough - it's not a 'them and us', Islam v Westerner thing, and it's not that I think that women are necessarily being forced into wearing clothing they don't want to - it is simply the fact that as much as many of you say men and women are equal under fundamental Islam in theory, in practice it is so totally not the case.

Eric out of interest, my DB and I saw a lot of women dressed like your middle picture, red headscarves over very very long hair, long denim skirts at the Imperial War Museum once.

What made them stand out, is that two of these women were laughing at some items in the Holocaust display. And I don't mean sharing a joke to ease the awful tension and gloom, I mean actually pointing to things and laughing hysterically.

Still makes me shiver, but that aside we wondered about the attire. Couldn't work it out really. Anyone know more?

Sorry to go off thread, just that pic has brought back the image.

EricNorthman is incorrect.

First one, orthodox jew is actually a catholic nun!

I'm not for the Burkha being banned as I feel it will only futher isolate the few women who are actually made to wear it under duress. HOWEVER, since it isn't as far as I know, actually required or demanded by the koran, I do not understand the strong advocacy in it's behalf. It is possible to be modest without it. Also I know that if I were to travel to some predominently muslim countries I wouldn't be able to wear a mini skirt or boob tube (just for the sake of argument since I'm too old to get away with wearing either, alas ) I also note that the indeginous women of those countries would not be able to wear such clothing even if they had a penchant to.

At school I had a few muslim and sikh friends and if i went round to their house, i was more careful with my dress so as not to offend. I would do the same when visting a Muslim country. Perhaps the same rule should apply on the opposite side so the speak?

As for the Catholic Nun argument - well, Monks dress similarly, plus these are people who have dedicated their lives to God, rejected materials goods, taken vows of chastity, chosen to live in convents/monasteries, etc, etc - they are not every day Christians going about their lives.

And to those who say, well, if you ban the burkha, that will only drive some women further indoors and make them even more excluded from society - well... You're admitting yourselves then, that they are oppressed!!

If it was something they chose to wear of their own free will, then they could surely equally choose not to wear it, and there would be no repercussions. Clearly there would be repercussions, and not nice ones.

scaryteacher - you really think fuck me shoes are empowering? (Germaine Greer's description of your so called killer heels). How so?