to beleive that inspite of the cut backs in education, all children should be offered some training to boost their self-confidence

[OrmRenewed]

as it would stop the adult world being full of people who think everyone else is being aggressive or snippy when they aren't? And presumably also stop them responding in an aggressive and snippy way hence starting an on-going argument. Just think of the feuds that could be prevented that way. And who knows how many wars were started by 'he looked at me funny'.

I think we should contact Mr Gove at once.

I have a friend who is proud to be 'assertive'. What she actually is is aggressive- always shouting about her rights but not willing to accept her responsibilities (at least not in an appropriate manner). I think it's this kind of attitude that is the problem, not necessarily a lack of confidence.

But I suspect that kind of behaviour comes from insecurity though. Like a small dog who acts more fierce than the rotty down the road

Well yes some people do overreact due to insecurity.

Think self confidence is something for parents to teach rather than Mr Gove mind you.

(And besides, a little insecurity is part of the national character. Otherwise we'd be Americans )

I don't think that is the role of education - that is what families are for. And I know that some people's famililes leave a lot to be desired.......and those famililes that needed the help would probably not avail themselves of it in just the same way that children/young peple who lacked `confidence' probably wouldn't avail themslevs of training.

There is education and training available, many children now are sent down the vocational route as this is more suited to their skill sets/learning styles.

However no amount of training will ever change the fact that some folk are funny buggers and actively look to start something because "oi, you splilled my pint/you're looking funny at me/my bird" etc.

Write away, Ministers are actively embracing ideas from the public, especially if you can demonstrate there is money to be saved

Agree with ActuallyMyNamesMarina, that's what families and communities should be doing.

And it's not something everybody needs help with - in fact it's likely that some would benefit far more from a little advice on how to have more respect and consideration for others...

D

I would prefer to think of children developing self-esteem first - which is a feeling of someone valuing themselves, and underlies self confidence.

I kind of agree with lazarusb as well. Children are encouraged, way more than in my day - to behave assertively, but I think it sometimes tips over into aggressiveness in those who haven't really developed empathy and an ability to see another person's point of view.

That said, schools should be encouraging self-esteem - by making sure that children's skills, interests and positive personality traits are recognised.

Oh OK - self-esteem is probably what I meant. There are so many thread on here (and incidents in rl IME) where people over-react because they think everyone's picking on them. Whereas in most cases they aren't.

It wasn't an entirely serious thread but maybe I need to suggest it to Mr G. Might save money on policing if all the chippy blokes in town on a saturday night are chilled out and happy.

Thanks for indulging my little terminology discussion .

I've been thinking about it recently because DS1 has been suffering a lot from his lack of self esteem, and yet on the surface he is fairly confident. We've been trying to give him ideas of what to say when people tease him, but I think that was papering over the cracks a bit, because what he needs is to *feel8 so good that he doesn't even need to say anything back - just let it bounce off him

And I agree that chippiness comes from poor self esteem too

YANBU

And I could do it !

(I realise you are tongue in cheek, but just in case it ever happens.......I'll do it - I am trained and everything )

Lady - out of interest - what do you think about what I've said above?

How old is he?
I ask because firstly a sense of SE doesn't really emerge until 7/8

He's nearly 10

I should say - we are seeing a counsellor, which is looking good

As a teacher of teenagers, I do sometimes wish that something could be done to enhance the self esteem of some girls. I'm talking about the girls who think, by 14, that the only way of feeling worthwhile and attractive is to let boys do things to them that they're not necessarily comfortable with. I'd also like to be able to convince children that their own particular talents and interests are important, whether or not these fit in with the general view of what is "cool". I find it very sad when I hear of girls at school behaving in what I think is a totally inappropriate way with boys (often older boys) because they think it's the only way to prove that they are "someone". I'm not sure how to fix it though. I try to encourage the studetns I teach to nurture their talents and to aim as high as they can in terms of their ambitions (within reason - no point setting them up for a fall) but it's so difficult as an adult (and a boring one at that, given that I'm their teacher) to convince them that sex is not the way to fulfillment at the age of 13/14.

So I agree, OP - something should be done to raise the self esteem of children, I just don't know what, or by whom.

" I'm talking about the girls who think, by 14, that the only way of feeling worthwhile and attractive is to let boys do things to them that they're not necessarily comfortable with"

Oh YES! I'm only beautiful/acceptable/clever if some boy says I am? FFS! Infuriating!

It is a pretty multi-faceted thing Self Esteem - generally considered to come from quite a few things - genes, parents' influence (authoritative types tend to have children with higher SE), but generally there are 5 areas that build SE - scholastic competence, athletic competence, social appearance, physical appearance and behavioural conduct.

And those domains help the child build a picture of where they see themselves - low se comes when their ideal self and real self have a big gap. High se is when the ideal self and real self are close together.

But, you may see, that this is all down to how we think about things - how we attribute failure for example - and this is something that definitely can be learned - you could do no worse than reading Seligman's books on authentic happiness

Garbled - in a rush sorry

I think that by allowing our children to be children and not testing them at such an early age would be a step in the right direction. I work with todlers and pre-schoolers and have always believed that allowing children to develop at their own rate while developing a sense of self is much more important than focusing on getting them to read and write at the age of 4.
This is why I love the EYFS and believe it should be extended until the end of Key stage 1.

thanks Lady. Seem to remember Seligman from my Psych degree. Will have a look. For my son there's a job to convince him of the good traits he has (he finds them hard to acknowledge), and that, I think, is partly because they aren't clearly valued by his friends, and by the school (depending on the teacher -his teacher this year is not strong on this)

And as a parent of boys, EvilTwin, what you say interests me. I do observe that there is a lot more pressure on girls to excel in all areas, compared to when I was young. I can't help thinking that the pornification of our culture has contributed to this idea of the mark of a woman being how sexually available she is.

And what you say about "cool" rings true too - for boys it's sports (esp football) and computer games

They should be - it's called SEAL (social and emotional aspects of learning) and is an integral part of the PSHE curriculum for state schools.

Sadly the last govt did not manage to make PSHE a statutory curriculum requirement in time for the election and the new govt don't want to.

SEAL is completely overlooked, IME. There are so many things that teachers are supposed to put into the curriculum that things like SEAL, which are actually quite important, IMO, don't get a look in. Also, it's difficult to actually TEACH it, I've found. We're supposed to be focussing on PLTS skills this week, and I've shoe-horned them into my lesson plans, but sometimes it feels like lip-service.

I have daughters. They're pre-schoolers a the moment. I will be making their self-esteem a high priority. I feel for girls whose mothers can't or don't do that.

Lady - I found that list of things which contribute to self-esteem really interesting.

My DD school are part of the childresn UN nad instead of rules they have rights and responsibilities which I think is a great idea as the kids choose them as a group.
Surely self confidence is not something to be taught in a classroom are we as parents not responsible for this ?

Self confidence training often trivialises the issues it deals with. Far better for education to spend money on teaching people well as a good education is always a source of self confidence.

There was a very interesting podcast on R4 womans hour about debating societies, how they are springing up again and how valuable they are for children's confidence. Can't find the link yet, but will keep looking

Don't know if it's relevant here but my dad is a careers adviser and says that he has the opposite problem - ie trying to talk kids down from fantasy jobs that they have very little chance of getting, to real jobs in the local area for which there are vacancies.

I don't mean crapping on their dreams, but trying to get them to realise that not everybody can be a singer/ actor/ model/ DJ etc.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00swp2p#synopsis

Children and Public Speaking

Assertiveness and effective communication are needed in professional life. Many of these skills are learned through the arts of debate and public speaking.
But as debating unions have traditionally been the weapons of the university-educated privileged, how can these skills be passed to those from alternative backgrounds? And how can women use the force of rhetoric to exert their influence on society?
Jane discusses the issue with Dr. Johan Siebers, a senior lecturer in philosophy of communication, Margaret McCabe, CEO of ?debate mate? which teaches debating skills in state schools; and Joanne Cash, media barrister and former Conservative parliamentary candidate.

www.debatemate.com/
www.debatemate.com/page.asp?p=3547