What's wrong with DD's nursery?? AAARRRGGGHHHH!! Or Is it me, AIBU?

[mumat39]

Before I start I should explain that I'm feeling a mixture of emotions but mostly feeling really hacked off and fed up with DD's nursery. A bit of history : DD 4.5 is allergic to the wheat, eggs, Tree Nuts, Peanuts and other legumes (lentils, mung beans, chick peas, kidney beans, soya), Sesame, Rapeseed Oil, Oats as well as cats and pollen. I also suspect other foods. I am a very careful parent, like most mums of allergic kids and always make sure things are mentioned and that I double check everything.

Here goes...

They have baking on a Thursday and I asked yesterday what they would be making and did I need to provide anything. The converstaion moved onto 'well we could do with a couple of bags of flour for playdough'. The lady who mentioned that seemed to say that she has been buying it the last couple of time. I used to provide it (Doves Rice Flour) until the main nursery teacher told me that they could get it. I'm happy to provide stuff as I often feel guilty that I am 'putting on' the nursery by DD going there. I'm not very confident and always feel like that about this nursery. Anyway, the conversation went onto what they were making and it was gingerbread men. I asked what the recipe was and was told flour, butter, sugar and ginger. Feeling happy I asked if DD could join in and 'have a go' at making some. They said they would do this and she would be in the first group and they would use the WF/GF flour. All good.

When I went to collect DD this afternoon, she came out carrying her ginger bread man. As soon as I noticed it and said hello, DD said 'it has egg in it'. I suddenly felt like the rug had been pulled from under me. I immediately took the little bad and noticed that there were grease spots on the side so asked DD if she would go in and wash her hands again. I asked the teacher and she said yes it does have egg (same lady as I'd spoken to the day before). My immediate thoughts were ' was she ok handling it'. They said she had rolled it out and had been fine so presumably the parent helper had made the dough. DD didn't go in to wash her hands but the teacher said that because I worry, that they had made sure DD washed her hands afterwards. Wouldn't they ask all the children to wash their hands after handling dough that contained raw egg. Not sure why they felt they had to make that point. Anyway, I was surprised but relieved that DD was ok and had been ok. As we left I noticed that she had a red weal on one cheek, where she'd touched her face after giving me the biscuit bag.

When I see a weal, I have no idea if it's just a lone thing or if it's the start of something else. I was actually going to let DD try some of the biscuit she'd made so am SO SO pleased she mentioned it as the staff hadn't.

WHen I saw that I just felt so shaky and upset and really really angry. I HATE confrontation but went back to the nursery and spoke to the main teacher and I couldn't believe her attitude.

I said that DD isn't allowed to handle egg and that it is written on the Care Plan which was finalised in the first few weeks she was there. The teacher said 'well she has to try it at some point'. I was kinda dumbstruck and couldn't believe she said that. I should have replied ' well when it's deemed to be safe she will try some in a food challenge under medical supervision'. I mentioned that when we discussed it the day before, egg hadnt been mentioned. She said 'oh hadn't it?'. She apologised but only after I pointed out that it was in the care plan. She said she'd make sure it didn't happen again but I don't believe her. I get the feeling that once the care plan was pinned up on the wall it hasn't been looked at. I then asked if it would be ok for DD to go and wash her hands and again they said 'well she did wash them' so I said, 'she's been holding the bag and the grease has come through'. The teacher immediately said 'well that was her own butter so that wouldn't be a problem' so I said 'well the fact that it's on the bag and the biscuit has egg in it then I think she should wash her hands'. I get the feeling that there is alot of eye rolling that goes on. The number of times this lady has said to me 'well she's got to try it sometime'. If anyone says that again to me I think i'll scream. Oh and she also said ' DD said that she never eats
whatever she brings home anyway' as if it's okay to handle a food that she's allergic to. I then had to remind her that DD hasn't ever bought anything home as when she first started nursery their oven didn't work so they hadn't done any baking.

I also said to this teacher that the care plan is there for a reason and if with a class of 26 kids it's difficult to make sure DD is ok, then I could take her out of the nursery. She replied saying 'don't make this into a bigger issue than it is'. When we left I, as usual, apologised for being a pain, and she said 'no you must talk to us' but all the while I talk to them I get a feeling that they really would rather I just go away.

Anyway, we came home, and I noticed that DD had a few more little nettle rash type lone spots on her face and hands and shoulder. So I gave her a bath and even though it was only 3.40 and made her wait for something to eat. She was very upset and I ended up bursting into tears at which DD nearly cried again.

I have never felt that the staff at the nursery believe me and that they think i'm an OTT mum. I really hate the way they make me feel. I the past when they've had things that DD can't do, they explained this to her by saying 'well your mummy doesn't want you to do that' rather than, unfortunately because you're allergic to this it might make you feel poorly. AAAAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH!!! When DD first started I made sure that they understood the allergies she has and for the last term, everything's been in place so I haven't said or asked for anything. I'm like one of the other mums and drop her off at the door and pick her up at the door.

When I saw the next few weals after we got home, I was seriously thinking I'll complain but I'm not sending her back. I spoke to DP this evening and he just says that I need to remind them again about things. He always talks about what I should do not what we should do but that's a whole other thread.

Anyway, am I being unreasonable about this? I don't feel I can trust them really. Thank goodness DD mentioned there were eggs in the biscuits. The other thing that I've been concerned about for a long while, ever since she started there really, is that they always seem to have different people working in the nursery and I don't know how good they are at making sure they know that DD has allergies. DD takes her own water bottle in which was agreed on day 1, and she has been told by one of the staff that 'this isn't a nursery for opening bottles' one day when I'd tightened the lid a bit too much. Since then DD doesn't drink water there at all.

Today, there were 2 parent helpers and 1 was doing baking. I know the mum and I know she wouldn't have used egg in the mix if she had been told that DD was allergic. But I don't think there is any handover of information at all and with food allergies and handling foods you'd think that would happen. I think the care plan is on the wall gathering dust and isn't used at all.

I am all over the place with this post,sorry. The care plan explicitly says to discuss baking with me and also to NOT let DD handle the foods she's allergic to. What's the point of a care plan??

I feel so so angry and sad and have that same feeling again that it's me vs the world on this.

very very very very :(

they don't get it
You are not overreacting
(My DS would never have been able to tell me such a thing)
If you can take her out, I would
If it had been a genuine mistake and they'd been horrified and put things in place to correct it, then that maybe would ahve been a different story. But they do think you're neurotic mum and they don't think it's a big deal

hang on a min, your DD doesn't drink water while she's there? How long is she tere for?

Pull her out. They quite clearly don't give quite as much of a toss as they need to, and their attitude stinks.

If this was me I wouldnt be sending my daughter there again and Id put my concerns in writing and copy Ofsted (or whoever regulates the nursery) in as well. Makw aure you mention in the letter that you felt your complaint wasnt listened to and you feel this is the only way forward.
This is NOT acceptable, an allergy can be mild or serious but should all be treated with care. They obviously dont care and as you seem to come across a bit meekly they are taking advantage of your nature.
Hope you get a positive outcome.

YAsoNBU they have to follow her care plan regardless of their staffing ratios. I would complain loudly, it's not your fault or your dd's fault she has allergies.

And all the stuff Dilli says above.

Horrid for you.

Thanks for replying. I'm supposed to be working this evening but just can't concentrate!

She's there for 3.25 hours in the afternoon, she has water before she goes and still has 7oz milk when she gets back.

I didn't need to give her piriton, but that's not the point is it?

I hate dealing with the world when it comes to DD's allergies. She's supposed to start full time school in September. I was just starting to relax a little about them and as usual whenever I think anything positive something happens to make me think again.

The thing with taking her out is that I'm not sure if I can go through this again, you know making sure the new place understands, now and then again in September. Maybe I need help. I'm already on anti-depressants for anxiety over allergies.

YANBU and what's wrong with the nursery is they are crap and think they know better than you or the medical profession...

Take her out. If you need the childcare for work then what about a childminder or a smaller nursery? Fewer issues with continuity of care.

The staff sound awful. Anyone who is (presumably) qualified in childcare and has the appropriate first aid certification should realise that a child who gets a mark on her face just from touching it after handling a blummin' biscuit has a potentially very serious allergy, not a fussy mummy!

Really, get her out ASAP, this isn't going to help your anxiety and certainly won't help your dd if she has a bad reaction, which sadly it sounds as though they might allow!

That is appalling.

I would definitely definitely definitely complain to the manager of the nursery, and to Ofsted. And to anyone who will listen.

It's a nursery at a local infants school. :(

You're right to be upset but they don't get it. If you otherwise like the centre my absolute belief is everyone always does things with good intentions so you would need to write a calm letter dot pointing the areas which let you down (communication process) and the solution which would prob be that you are to be given a roster of all cooking activities a week in advance, signed off by you and request that all parent helpers sign something that says they have read and understand your child's health concerns. Although tempting, do not try to 'scare' people into best practice, if they're scared about handling situations they may not be level headed if something arises.

Ofsted will not look at any complaint unless you have first followed the LA's own complaints procedure, which would normally be to go to the teacher, Head Teacher, Local Authority, then Ofsted. I think it's worth getting their complaints policy from them.

Do you have a Health Visitor or another Health Care Professional who deals with you on a regular basis regarding your DD's allergies? It might be worth giving them a call and telling them what's happened and how it's made you feel.

They may be able to go in to the Nursery and give them the hard line on exactly why the care plan is necessary, and how culpable they will be if they ignore it again. The Nursery need to know you are not over-reacting. They need to be trained in what happens to a child in anaphilactic (sp?) shock, so they are more wary of risking it again.

Agree you should make a complaint. This is disgraceful and unsafe behaviour. I also think you should get a Health Care professsional on board. They might beable to advise on a good nursery also.

I volunteer in a reception class and they have little posters, which are very visable in hte classroom and staf room. Also each time baking is done a consent letter is sent home which shows all the ingredients of the recipe. So hopefully OP, your DDs Year R class will be similar.

I'm going to call DD's allergy nurse tomorrow. She's spoke to the nursery about DD's careplan in October last year. I'll speak to her and see what she thinks. It usually takes a few days to get through to her. I wasn't sure if maybe I was being oversensitive but your replies make me feel like I am not being unreasonable.

I feel so so exhausted with the fact that it feels like such a battle. Life for my DD and me has been so isolating and she loves it at nursery and I just don't understand why they don't get it. They've got letters from the Allergist, including all the test results. SO what's not to understand? I really think they can't be bothered with it all. They are older ladies who are of the same mindset as my MIL who thinks that you deal with allergies by just giving bits of whatever the culprit is.

I really don't want a battle. I just want to be able to work with them in a mutually respectful way to ensure my DD is as safe as she can be. I just don't feel like I can trust them anymore. I truly feel that DD was lucky today. Next time she might not be.

Her first reaction was when she was 6 1/2 months old to the wheat in a baby rusk. Since having tests, her numbers on both the skin prick and blood tests were much higher for most of her other allergies incl. peanuts and eggs than for wheat so I've always been terrified as her first reaction to that rusk required an adrenaline injection in hospital and she was kept in overnight as she had swelled up alot. I know they say that the size of a skin prick test or blood test result doesn't determine the severity of a reaction, but I've always just been really careful since then.

Life's tough enough with allergies as it is. I just can't believe that they've been this i dunno. I want to use the word negligent.

I'm afraid I just wouldn't want them looking after my DD. They have the letters from the Allergist, they know the facts but they choose to believe they know better.

I would try to find another nursey which actually has experience of looking after other DC with allergies. I would also make a complaint against this nursery so that they are forced to get some training/guidance on how to deal with allergies so the DC is not put in danger.

YANBU. I would be livid. I would do others have said and remove your DD but complain as well. I actually can't believe they are saying and doing these things in this day and age! There are good nurseries out there who can cope with children with allaergies.
If your DD is 4.5 I assume she will be starting school soon?

I'm so sorry to hear this has happened.

I'm going to pick just a few things out of your long post:

• She said she'd make sure it didn't happen again but I don't believe her.
• they think I'm an OTT mum
• I get the feeling that once the care plan was pinned up on the wall it hasn't been looked at.
• they always seem to have different people working in the nursery... I don't think there is any handover of information at all
• I don't feel I can trust them really

It's also very, very sad that they have been telling your DD "well, your mummy doesn't want you to do [whatever]" instead of talking with her about allergies in a reasonable and matter-of-fact way.

I have had similar problems with my DS's pre-school, and have now withdrawn him. The staff completely failed to follow basic procedures which were agreed in advance (e.g. wiping tables, handwashing, letting us know in advance about cooking activities, warning him when there was milk in the room, having a member of staff sat with him at snack time, not letting other children touch his food). Like your DD, he reacts on skin contact to some foods, but they usually forgot about his allergies when organising activities, and put him at very serious risk on a number of occasions. When they did remember, he was made to feel isolated and excluded (e.g. being sent to a separate room on his own during a cooking activity that all the other children were taking part in). They also made me feel that I was being a pushy/paranoid parent.

I felt that, as well as exposing him to unnecessary physical risk, they were also damaging him emotionally. I have gone to a great deal of trouble to teach DS to manage his allergies in a calm, matter-of-fact way, and the staff at his pre-school were undermining this completely.

I know that nurseries and pre-schools SHOULD be inclusive (and no doubt they all have policies that say they are!) but when the staff so clearly do not get it, and the failings are so systemic, it's hard to know what to do for the best.

I agree that you should not send your daughter back, and also that you should make a formal complaint. (I didn't, but am now considering doing so...)

To add to my last post... I said that I don't think you should send your DD back, and I think that's true, but she is likely to be sad about that

My DS still really wants to go to pre-school. I have explained that it wasn't really safe for him there, but he says things like "but I was careful ... I took food in my own special bag... I didn't touch any cows milk" - and the most horrible thing is that he WAS careful! It was the adults that failed him

That is a bad attitude from them.

You must for certain escalate your complaints and put them in writing. Would your GP be willing to write a letter expressing his concern (is it too late to take her there for a 'checkup' - maybe conveniently bursting into tears about how worried you were about their dismissive attitude).

"has to try it sometime" shows total lack of understanding of the issue.

I'd complain and take her out too.

DS's nursery were great with his allergies, BIG pic on the wall, always checked with me if they were cooking, let me know when the epi-pens were going to expire. Very efficient.

If your DD has a care plan in place they cannot ignore it!

I had very similar problems with the pre school my DD went to last year. She is fortunately only allergic to milk (although needs an epipen as had some severe reactions). I told the school that she reacted on contact to milk so what did they go and do at Easter - put a chocolate easter nest in each childs hand as they left. When asked what was in it I was told oh its just weetabix and cooking chocolate .

then we had gingerbread men also made without her dairy free butter and a sports day where I had been assured that there would be only the usual afternoon snacks plus maybe boxes of raisins - "we do try to have a healthy eating policy after all". So imagine my surprise when I turn up to check the food and there are pom bears, toffee popcorn, chocolate biscuits, cheese puffs etc

I guess I kept her there because they didn't cook very often and the only food regularly provided was fruit and dairy free plain biscuits. They also didn't give me the attitude that you are having to face.

things did get really bad in the last couple of weeks of the summer term when someone spilt milk on her leg at break time. I didn't even know they served milk so it was a big shock. Fortunately they washed her down straight away and gave her piriton but she still ended up with teh usual allergic rash. They told me afterwards (quite proudly) that they now only let her come to the snack table before the milk drinkers as a precaution. What the hell had they been doing for the last year??

I almost came to blows with the manager over the trip the leavers were going on when I questioned her on how they would keep DD safe (too long to go into now)

So I guess I'm saying all this to say that unfortunately you are not alone in dealing with irresponsible carers and you are certainly not an overbearing mother or making something out of nothing.

In your situation I would seriously consider taking your DD out of the nurseru and at the least make some sort of formal complaint. Life with allergies is hard enough without all the grief you are being put through.

On a brighter note, my DD started reception back in September and is being extremely well looked after by the staff. She has a great teacher who watches out for her and makes sure she is kept safe so things for us have definitely improved

Oh you poor thing, I would have felt just like you. Id have cried with anger and bloody frustration.

If it was me, I have to be honest, Id withdraw my child immediately, heads would roll, Id take it too the top and Id an understanding childminder or at a push a better nursery for her to go to.

'Shes got to try it sometime' er wtf? Egg could kill some children!

I am appalled at her blase attitude. Its things like this that make me desperate to become a CM. We just need to wait until the baby's a bit better.

Ditto what everyone else has said. Sadly some people just don't get allergies, they think it's just fussy eating or over-protective parenting. Does this woman not realise that she could have killed your child? I was very lucky that DS's nursery only had 9 kids and the staff were fantastic. The allergy nurse went in to train them not just on how to use the epi pen but also about managing allergies and avoiding reactions. Sounds like your nursery needs some serious allergy training. I really don't think I could send my child there again, even though I'd hate to have to pull them away from their friends etc.

Thanks everyone.

A bit of an update. Apologies in advance for the fact that this is all over the place. It represents the state of my head at the moment.

I tried to contact the allergy nurse this morning and couldn't get through.

I also spoke to the mum who had been doing the baking with the kids and she had been told that there were kids with allergies in the first group but that the ingredients, including the bloody egg were fine. I felt bad ringing this mum and only did as I felt the teacher yesterday was not telling me the facts. The mum also told me that DD was a joy to have baking as she hadn't ever done it before and that DD had loved it. I also couldn't get through to the Senco and felt I needed the facts so I called her. I do feel bad as she is lovely and I hope she didn't feel that this was in some way her fault at all.

I called the Senco and she called me back and we had a conversation where I got upset again. She didn't say anything until I mentioned it and then told me that she had been updated by the teacher concerned, who later during our conversation she told me that the teacher had been very upset during their conversation.
Anyway, the Senco was very apologetic and said she was very disappointed that this had happened and that she understands that they have to build up my trust in them again. She also said that the teachers had told her that the whole egg thing had been an oversight and that as soon as they realised they asked DD to wash her hands straightaway. Basically they changed the details. The thing is that if this had happened why didn't they mention it to me when I picked her up? and why did they let her bring the biscuit home??

She also said that we should have a meeting to decide how to move forward with the teacher, her and me present. I mentioned that the processes are in place now and that these weren't followed. SHe kept saying sorry and that we need to move forward.

Anyway, she does seem to want to ensure things don't happen again but she kept saying, over and over, that they cannot guarantee 100% that they can keep DD away from allergens. She's said this in the past when we first worked through the care plan so I'm used to this. I've always said to them that as long as they have processes in place where DD is kept as safe as possible, and she still has a reaction then that's just one of those things. I'm well used to DD having odd reactions at home even though I am very very careful, and I understand that there is always an element of risk.

She then replied to say, but even if we put these procedures in place with extra checks, she still can't 100% guarantee DD will be kept safe as there is always room for 'human error'. I've been thinking about this all day and surely that's why processes and checks are put into place to mitigate against human error? Or am I completely wrong about this?

SHe also said that we need to think about baking and that maybe I should be there for when DD does baking. I don't work but have a 2 year old so this isn't practical. SO she said well maybe then DD doesn't do baking. Or I provide all the ingredients before hand. I keep wondering if this is actually inclusive??

I also asked about egg boxes and I thought they said they didn't allow them into nursery and they were requested in today's newsletter. When I ask about things like this they are always talking about inclusion and the curriculum and how important it is for all kids to be able to take part. I understand that but they really don't seem to be willing to try and include DD.

ANyway, they have asked me to provide plastic egg boxes for junk modelling. We don't eat eggs due to DD's allergies and don't have them in the house, but she said that the supermarkets sell the plastic boxes that I could buy and wash. I won't be doing that!

I also called another infants school but they don't have spaces in their nursery and are unlikely to for the rest of this year.

DP thinks we should have the meeting and look for assurances (again) and send DD back there as it won't be fair on her to be at home for 6 months until she starts full time school in September.

I'm not so sure. It feels like they keep saying they can't guarantee that they can keep her safe as some sort of cop out. I also feel it wouldn't be fair on DD as she's been so cooped up before starting nursery and she has made friends and it gets her out of the house and gives her some independence.
I did look at alot of private nurseries before we chose this one but I never got a good feeling about any of them. Not one seemed to get the whole multiple allergy issue and I never felt confident that they wanted to take on an allergic child, or be able to to cope/manage it.
I know this sounds like it's all about me but I also don't know if I can cope with going through the whole process of finding another nursery again, and going through the care plan etc for the next few months and then again in September when DD starts full time school.

Next week in nursery they are doing fun Easter things like making bonnets and have an Easter parade which the parents are invited to. She and I would love that so is it mean/unnecessary to take her away from all that?

I really don't want to overreact and remove her if it's not necessary but on the other hand I don't feel reassured enough that something like this won't happen again.

Sorry for the very long post again. My head is in a spin and all this could have been so easily avoided if they had just taken a little bit of care.

:(

I am troubled by the idea that they are not taking responsibilty for including your child in the cookery lessons, by asking you to attend it doesnt mean that egg will not be in that lesson.
they are choosing to pass that responsibility on to you while your child in in THEIR care.

this is not acceptable. This is exclusion, because if they were making something with egg your child would NOT be able to take part even if you were there.

sometimes things need to be put plainly, i asked a teacher would she sprinkle rat posion on the food and trust the kids not to lick their fingers or rub an eye? have to say that this made them think. we didnt have a lesson making peanut butter sandwiches in class!

when my kid was 7 , i tried to explain the idea of cross contamination in the room with her planned food activity, in the end, the only thing that got through was, ''do you think the other parents would like to see a severe allergic reaction or die in front of them'?
no? i didnt think so. and of course of all children, the allergic ones need to learn to cook, after all they cant go to restaurants and be able to find something to eat every time can they?

sorry to hear that this is happening. be blunt, be demanding, can call on higher authorites if you need to. good luck.