DH is an alcoholic but thinks I don't know the extent of his drinking.

[lewes2]

My 53 yr old husband has a long history of drinking, which he's managed for the last 10 or so years on an off. ie. occasional periods of abstinence, stopping drinking midweek, etc. There have been loads of relapses over the years when I've found an empty vodka bottle in the car/back of cupboard etc, (always met with fierce denial) and I realise it's quite possible that he's been drinking constantly behind my back, but I don't believe he has. It's caused huge problems, rows, lying, mistrust etc. Anyway, in the last 3 months, he has started drinking and concealing vodka daily. I always have half an eye out for his drinking (he stays up late at weekends and drinks when I go to bed) and I found a bottle of coke in the side pocket of his car. Tasted it and it was 50% vodka. So then I started looking, and to cut a long story short, he's been buying coke/bitter lemon daily, hides it under the bed, in the car, in the garage etc, and every evening goes upstairs 'to the loo' or 'to get something from the car' and drains it, alongside his public 3 or 4 pints of lager. On Boxing day, he drank publicly with everyone else, and also got through four bottles of vodka & bitter lemon that he was stashing in the garage. His mother was an alcoholic and died of liver cancer. I know about Al anon, I know that only he can change this, that he hasn't' reached rock bottom anywhere near (still running a successful business and masking his drinking v well). What I need advice on is when to raise it. Today seems like a good day before we both go back to work tomorrow, but I know I'll be met with - I'm giving up tomorrow, NY new start etc and I think he may well manage not to drink this midweek at least, and I feel I'll have missed my window, as he'll admit it and say he's stopped. On the other hand, I feel if I raise it and blow my cover, then I can't monitor his drinking any more and it will go even further underground, and he'll just carry on lying to me. Should I do it today? I've been putting it off over Christmas as couldn't face the bullshit denial. He's made me so many empty promises over the years, and want him to go to AA this time.

In this situation, you can't control him. Only yourself. It's gone too far.
You either stay or go, it's up to you

I’d personally confront him. I don’t think it’s right for you to continue like this. It sounds like a horrible situation to be in.

Hello op what a sad situation. Hopefully confronting him will at least make him aware that YOU KNOW and will force him out into the open

Why ‘raise it’? What do you want to know?

You have your answer. His drinking is very very serious. The real question is what are you going to do? It doesn’t involve him at all.

He is not abstaining periodically as you think. He is drinking every day and is well down the rabbit hole of alcoholism.

You can't help him.

You can choose whether or not you want to live with an alcoholic.

He can choose whether or not to seek help and treatment.

Hi there, what did you decide to do?
Thinking of you and wishing you the best - it is a tough position to be in and I can relate.

Thanks @FridaMo, I appreciate your response. Some people's lack of empathy blows me away! I had some really good advice from another poster which was to wait until I've decided what to do and how much more I can take. Unfortunately it's not as simple as people make out. Walking away from a marriage, and the impact that will have on everyone in our lives, is not an easy decision, plus I'm very aware that he is in an awful place, he's had a difficult life and is very emotionally damaged, hence the drinking, and leaving him to drink himself into an early grave isn't something I relish. At the moment, apart from the deceit, he is perfectly fine to live with, so that makes it quite easy for me to detach emotionally and get on with my life while I think about what to do.

I think that's wise. People can be quick to dole out facile advice. In some cases it may be well intentioned, an attempt to save you from heartache and tragedy that theyve experienced, but in truth every relationship is a unique and dynamic thing. Only you and your husband can really know the depth and breadth of it. And I believe that love and loyalty can survive addiction (And anything come to think of it) where both parties want it and do what it takes. I commend your level headed approach. What is potentially the hardest part for you is the deception - In my feeling deceit is so corrossive to a loving relationship that it etches itself onto us forever.. But that's not to say it has to be a lethal blow. What's going on here is about addiction and mental health, not your value as a partner. As hard as that is to differentiate at times. Keeping u in my thoughts and sending positive vibes.

I could have written your post (and follow up post) op. I have no advice. I still haven't said anything to my dh. My only concern is for his health (and about the waste of money). The hiding and lying must be causing even more stress for him. He's not stupid. He knows what he is doing and what he is. It won't help for me to point it out. It could harm though as it introduces more stress. A friend recommended to me having a calm, honest conversation somewhere public in the morning time (e.g. breakfast in a cafe) as a starting point. The conversation was to focus on health in general and, while referring to him drinking way to much above guidelines should be part of the chat, it shouldn't be all of it. Hiding the booze should not be part of this first chat either. Start with leading questions like, "What could we each do to be more healthy?"

I appreciate this is a softly softly approach and others may be LTB, but I'm coming from a place where we have a happy marriage apart from too much drinking and my dh having an incredibly damaging childhood.

I should have explained some theory from my post: morning = no booze around; public = distraction, mental escape route if needed. N.B. I have not done this yet.

Is he drink driving op?

I know it's hard but you can only save yourself. He sounds like a major alcoholic.

Do you have kids? I was brought up by a father who promised he would change. He didn't. Save yourself (and your kids if you have them). It will only get worse if you stay.

It sounds like therapy might help you with this.

So that went well then.... I raised the subject v gently with him tonight (he has been dry since Sunday I believe, & I asked him how he was coping without drinking) and as lots of people warned me, he totally denied midweek drinking. I said that I'd been clocking it for weeks very closely and monitoring what he was drinking, and he admitted that he 'drinks heavily at weekends' but that he never drinks midweek! I kept my calm and told him that I understand it's a horrible illness and that he's obviously struggling with it and that I am there to help, and I told him that I know it's only his decision as to whether or not he continues to drink, but I told him that it's my choice not to spend the rest of my life with an alcoholic. He's marched off to another room for the moment but at least the seed is sown.... I'll just have to see whether he reflects on it over the next few days, or not...

lewes2 That must have been a difficult conversation to have with him. My heart breaks for you. Please remember that you need some RL support too.

I’m sorry you’re going through this. I lost my first husband to alcoholism.

Please don’t think there’s anything you can do or say that can help him. He’ll get sober or he won’t, but you do have to decide what you can live with. I’d be making plans to separate if necessary, even if that just means starting to untangle your finances and working out what you would do and where you would go.

I know you don’t want to. Think of it as a contingency plan.

It doesn’t mean you don’t love him.

There's really very little point in discussing it with him. What do you honestly expect him to do other than deny or make empty promises to change? I've been where you are and understand that you are reluctant to break up your relationship. But you do have to accept that you cannot change this. He will keep drinking (and yes of course he is drink/driving) until he makes the decision to stop, or doesn't. So you have to decide if you are willing to put up with it, or not. As for not wanting him to drink himself to death on his own, he will do that with or without you. Do stop trying to monitor his drinking. It's a thankless, pointless role.

Oh Lewes2 that's really great that you were able to calmly confront all of it. Being calm and standing firm on what you know to be true is really admirable. Do you feel that he really believes you won't live with this? Have you made these statements before and stayed regardless of his slips back to destructive /secretive drinking? If so there's a chance he won't truly take this seriously.. And if he does take you at your word, there's also a chance he will go further underground. We can't be omnipresent even the most avid detectives among us!! What support are u getting through this? What are ur thoughts now? Well done to you for being so courageous and taking this on. Cheering you on and wishing you peace of mind tonight xx

Thank you @FridaMo. I haven't got to the stage of issuing ultimatums or anything like that, I've just told him that I have been monitoring his drinking and that I know. He was shocked, hence the complete denial and anger. At this stage, all I've said is that I know he's in a shit place and that the time has come to face up to it, or not if that's his choice. I've left it there for now. He's not ready for any sort of discussion at the moment. Thanks for your support x
@Downton57 I'm quite aware of what I have to decide in the long term, at this stage I was simply testing the water to see what his reaction would be, and it was, as I expected, denial and anger. I'm not looking for empty promises, I'm looking for either an acceptance that he's an alcoholic and a commitment to getting sober through AA or similar, possibly while he's living elsewhere, or for him to choose booze over me, in which case I'll have my answer. But I'm not making that decision until he's had time to process things, to calm down, and for us to talk further.

I'm genuinely sorry lewes2, because I have had all the thoughts you're thinking at the moment, but in my experience you're expecting too much from someone who is so deep in addiction. He is unable to process this rationally, and no matter how much you want him to see the error of his ways, I think it's really unlikely that it will happen.

OP if you really had been in touch with Al Anon and joined their groups you'd have more insight I think. You are expecting him to react as you would, ie to think about it all rationally and discuss a plan and give it a go. What is far more likely at this stage is several years ahead of back and forth between denial, anger and empty promises, with a few attendances at AA in the mix over the years when you say you're leaving.

I know what previous posters have said can sound harsh and lacking in empathy but I'm sure it's all coming from the wisdom of knowing that his addiction has nothing to do with you and you cannot change it at all.

Thinking of you @lewes2 you've actually taken a massive step by putting it out there that you know about the secret drinking. It will be a big thing for him. Previously He would have been thinking he'd been managing the situation 'well' by his various strategies to hide the secret drinking and he had thought he'd been getting away with it / possibly saw it as protecting you from the truth. He's tried to stick to the script he set, that he's not a big drinker, doesn't drink midweek etc etc and you've called him out on it. This will force him to face up to it at least a bit. Now he knows you know he'll have to decide where he goes from here. It may mean coming up with different ways of hiding his intake since you've found all his stashes, sadly. I hope not, you sound like there's a lot of love there too. It was brave to lay your cards out. Wishing you well X

My alcoholic husband put me through hell for years. Later died of alcohol related cancer. If you can leave him and retain your home (why should you suffer more?) then do so.

So.. update. We sat down together last night and had a much calmer, more constructive talk. He is still denying drinking midweek, and I told him I wasn't going to engage with him on that (though I find it fascinating that alcoholics can lie so brazenly, it was almost like he believed it himself.) He did admit that he is an alcoholic, but I'd say he's not yet at the stage where he can face asking for help. I told him that I had reached the end of the road, that any trust had gone, and that if he continued concealing/lying about booze, then I would leave him. I told him that I have already been looking at houses etc, separating our fincances and that shocked him. We talked very openly about everything that we both stand to lose, the house, our shared lives, friends - all the more poignant after a lovely Christmas with my kids who he's v close to. He was very sad but I made sure I didn't give him an ultimatum or push him into a corner. I said that he could potentially move out for a few months to see if he could sort himself out, or that he could continue to drink, in which case, that's his journey, not mine, but I made it clear that I wasn't prepared to spend the next 30 years with an alcoholic. Interestingly, @percheron67 I thought carefully about your comment saying why should I suffer more, and because I've managed to emotionally detach, I don't really feel that I am suffering at the moment - I've reached a level of acceptance that I've never had before. Not acceptance of his drinking, but acceptance of the fact that he is an alcoholic, not just a habitually heavy drinker. For the time being, I'm taking what I need from the relationship, (security, finance, company, help in the house etc) and getting on with my life, and I'm just going to sit back and see what happens. He hasn't had a drink since Sunday (fact) as weirdly, he had decided to do dry January off his own back - and of course, I told him that wasn't even going to begin to cut it - but interesting that he'd got there himself. Watch this space, but I feel a lot calmer for having had the conversation.

He will almost believe it himself. Alcoholics get very good at lying to themselves as well as everyone else and you'll probably need to accept that in the coming months the lies will continue, like the one he has told you about doing dry January. If he was genuinely in recovery, he'd never say something so rash.. it's one day at a time. It's your absolute right to wait around in the hope he will reach the stage of asking for help in order to keep the plus sides of being in a relationship, but the problem is that his drinking could get much worse before he realises he needs help. He could lose his job, get a drink driving conviction etc etc. It isn't a calm existence living with an alcoholic no matter how hard you try and detach. It's immensely stressful and painful and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

I just wanted to say I know alcoholics lie, they do terrible things and how they behave to carry on their secret drinking and the pain they put others through whilst doing it. I also know this - some stop drinking when faced with losing it all. 8 years ago I had a choice to make myself, I didn't want to stop drinking or I didn't feel like I completely wanted to, but I also didn't want to continue the way I was. Once I realised how much pain I was causing others and myself I started the process of stopping. And I stopped and have stayed sober for 8 years. I have a very happy life I do not miss drinking or the havoc it caused one bit. In the beginning when I started some half hearted attempts to stop it was hard but I ended up doing a 4 week rehab programme and for me that worked. You get to forget and leave behind a lot of the Shame you feel with drinking in such a way. I do not regularly attend AA, I read a lot about addiction, I am grateful for being sober and I only look forward not back. Good luck OP people can and do change and I hope your DH is one of us.

It sounds like you're keeping a cool head and being true to yourself while still respecting your partner. That is all anyone could ask of you in this situation, isn't it. Addiction is very complex, but i dont agree with some of the one-size-fits-all reactions here. You will make your own individual path. I wonder if you would benefit from some professional support too Lewes. While you are remaining calm and the detachment you've managed to make seems to be shielding you from the harshest aspects of all this, you may have deep seated fears and emotions that need to be tended to. It can seem alien in this part of the world to seek help but there could be some value in it for you. Sending love and positive vibes!