DH is an alcoholic but thinks I don't know the extent of his drinking.

[lewes2]

My 53 yr old husband has a long history of drinking, which he's managed for the last 10 or so years on an off. ie. occasional periods of abstinence, stopping drinking midweek, etc. There have been loads of relapses over the years when I've found an empty vodka bottle in the car/back of cupboard etc, (always met with fierce denial) and I realise it's quite possible that he's been drinking constantly behind my back, but I don't believe he has. It's caused huge problems, rows, lying, mistrust etc. Anyway, in the last 3 months, he has started drinking and concealing vodka daily. I always have half an eye out for his drinking (he stays up late at weekends and drinks when I go to bed) and I found a bottle of coke in the side pocket of his car. Tasted it and it was 50% vodka. So then I started looking, and to cut a long story short, he's been buying coke/bitter lemon daily, hides it under the bed, in the car, in the garage etc, and every evening goes upstairs 'to the loo' or 'to get something from the car' and drains it, alongside his public 3 or 4 pints of lager. On Boxing day, he drank publicly with everyone else, and also got through four bottles of vodka & bitter lemon that he was stashing in the garage. His mother was an alcoholic and died of liver cancer. I know about Al anon, I know that only he can change this, that he hasn't' reached rock bottom anywhere near (still running a successful business and masking his drinking v well). What I need advice on is when to raise it. Today seems like a good day before we both go back to work tomorrow, but I know I'll be met with - I'm giving up tomorrow, NY new start etc and I think he may well manage not to drink this midweek at least, and I feel I'll have missed my window, as he'll admit it and say he's stopped. On the other hand, I feel if I raise it and blow my cover, then I can't monitor his drinking any more and it will go even further underground, and he'll just carry on lying to me. Should I do it today? I've been putting it off over Christmas as couldn't face the bullshit denial. He's made me so many empty promises over the years, and want him to go to AA this time.

@orville81 thank you and massive respect to you for staying sober for 8 years. I am not naive and I know the odds are low, but following our conversation, my husband has spent an hour and a half on the phone to a very good friend of his who is now 30 yrs sober through AA, and he has decided to attend his first meeting tonight, with his friend offering to sponsor him. I do worry that he wouldn't have got there by himself, and is only doing it in response to me saying I would leave him, but the fact is I didn't tell him to do it. He picked up the phone and made the first step. So whilst my eyes are fully open to the strong possibility of it not working, I will wait and watch and hope. He said to me today, if the choice is you, or alcohol, then I choose you. In the meantime, at the advice of other posters, I have contacted a counsellor myself.

@lewes2 I have just one other point that I can’t see that anybody else has mentioned. If your DH was drinking to the levels that you say he was for the length of time that he was I would guess that he would be completely alcohol dependent. In that he is physically addicted and would suffer withdrawal if he just stopped. And it could actually be incredibly dangerous to just stop. With this in mind are you absolutely 100% positive that he has stopped drinking? Having secret stashes is not just about being in denial about how much the person is drinking but also very much to do with physically not being able to function without it. I would be highly suspicious that your DH has managed to stop completely without me experiencing symptoms of withdrawal. And you would be able to spot those symptoms a mile off!!

He hasn’t “managed” his drinking.
You can’t either.
You either subject yourself and any children to the damage of living with an alcoholic. Or you don’t.
Contact Al Anon for support.

IME the rock bottom for him? You leaving.

How old are your children, OP? Do they live with you?
I’ve trodden this road. There wasn’t a happy ending.

I also agree with the poster that said you are allowing your own logical thinking to set an expectation on what kind of a reaction he will have to you telling him you know. The fact that he is still lying to you about his level of drinking shows that he hasn’t faced up to the full extent of his alcoholism. You cannot trust anything that he says to you until he has done this. Talk of going to AA is merely him paying lip service in order to get you to shut up and get you off his back.

I think they sounds very positive, OP. He telephoned himself, you didn't force him and he's going to attend a meeting. People don't necessarily need to reach an archetypal rock bottom of no job, family, friends or home - although I have known people who have been there, and they rebuilt their lives.

Alcoholics do have common traits, the denial, lies etc - but they are also individuals and one person's path to sobriety may not be another's. I've been in AA for 13 years and have seen hundreds of people come into the rooms, many relapses, some fantastic swift recovery and some who take longer, who are more stubborn and who believe that they will learn to control their drinking.

If your husband hasn't had a drink since Sunday then his chances of DTs and withdrawal related seizure are very low if not non existent - when it happened to me I was 24-48 hours after my last drink, and I was 24 hours a day drinking.

I hope that his meeting goes well. We recommend listening for the similarities not the differences.

@Rollergirl11 so when I say he was drinking on and off for years, I mean that largely, he was not drinking midweek, then he'd drink beer Fri/Sat/Sun evenings, so got v pissed v quickly on Friday as he hadn't drank all week. However, this last couple of months he started drinking vodka in secret midweek. He has never got to the stage of drinking during the day time, runs his own business and, looking back at my first post, when I said "On Boxing day, he drank publicly with everyone else, and also got through four bottles of vodka & bitter lemon that he was stashing in the garage." I didn't mean 4 bottles of vodka! I meant 4 bottles of bitter lemon mixed with vodka. He has however always had this ability to go cold turkey for a period of time. When we met, the doctor told him he needed to knock it on the head, and he gave up alcohol totally for 3 months, before slipping back into it. Over Christmas, if I hadn't been checking, I would hardly have known he was drunk because his tolerance levels had gone up so much, so no one except me even noticed that he was drinking. So a lifelong heavy drinker with major addiction problems (40 a day smoking has turned into vaping 24/7) and his drinking has caused me to dread Friday nights as we'd always row, whereas midweek he was fine. If you asked his friends to describe his drinking they'd say he was a heavy social drinker who'd always be the last to bed and would never turn down a drink but i don't think any of them would know he was an alcoholic. He hasn't had withdrawal symptoms since Sunday and I know he hasn't had a drink since then. He has unbelievable willpower and at the moment is fired up and determined, and his already been on the phone to his AA sponsor/friend about this evening. My fear/reality check is that the novelty factor and determination will wear off after a couple of months, and he'll slip back into it, but he's not a long term spirit drinking alcoholic. That's why the vodka drinking was such a shock. My children (not his) are grown up.

You say in your OP that you have found empty vodka bottles hidden in various places in the past so that’s what led me to believe that it’s been longer than just the 3 months.

I really hope for your sake that he has had the wake-up call that he needed to get himself on track. Only time will tell. Wishing you well @lewes2 but please look after yourself.

@Rollergirl11 thank you.

Really glad he has reached out for some help OP. That is a brave step for him to have taken and you sound like you’re watching this space, rather than thinking he has made it to safety, which is exactly the right approach.

I was going to suggest getting some counselling and it sounds like you’ve already done that. I found that speaking to a counsellor with plenty of experience of addiction was hugely important for me. I don’t think you can overestimate the benefit of talking to someone who REALLY understands. It is almost impossible for people with no experience of alcoholism to understand the strange new normal you have had to adapt to.

I know it might be frustrating to have people pointing out that you need to work out what you want and where your red line is but there are many of us on here who have been in your shoes, tried and tried, as you are, and who have wanted to give the alcoholic every chance. The statistics for that happening are grim, unfortunately. I think such posts are only trying to save you the long drawn out process that many of us experienced before we finally called time. However, just like your OH, you have to get there for yourself. Counselling with an experienced addiction counsellor will help you with that.

Finally, I just wanted to say, please please stop trying to monitor if and when and how much he’s drinking. That way lies total insanity. You have reached a point at which you know with certainty he is a full on alcoholic. That is enough. That fact will never change.
I wish you loads of luck.

@lewes2....any update at all? My DD19 is a recovering alcoholic. Quitting alone without any experienced support is a tall order. I’m not saying it can’t be done but the psychological addiction of alcohol is incredibly strong and is not easily broken. Most people really make some headway with external support - ideally from recovered alcoholics (AA Sponsor). AA and Smart Recovery are both worth your DH looking into. Sessions are happening remotely now pretty much around the clock ...so no reason to hesitate.
In your position as a first step, if he’s serious about quitting ...see if he will at least agree to attend just one AA session. If he won’t IMHO, he’s not serious. It sounds to me like he’s not hit a rock bottom of any kind yet and he may need that to provide a turning point. This might sound harsh, but by continuing life with a veneer of normality (when you know full well he’s been drinking) you are unwittingly enabling his life of addiction and habit to continue unchallenged. An addict doesn’t want a big show down and fuss...all they want is unhindered access to their next drink.

Thanks for asking @Lotusmonster. Yes, on Saturday he attended his first AA meeting online (he said it was very emotional) and his friend who is with this particular AA group and who is a recovering alcoholic of 30+ years has agreed to sponsor him. He hasn't had a drink for 9 days (yes I believe him, no I'm not being sold a line) although as I said in previous posts, he's always managed to go cold turkey for short periods of time, once for 3 months, but the problem is by his own admission, that once he has one drink, that's when he can't stop. So he's taking it one step at a time and I remain very open to possibility of it failing, but at the moment he is determined and feeling really positive about it, and is finding strength in having daily contact with his sponsor.

@lewes2....this is brilliant news OP and I hope a turning point in your lives. Living with an alcoholic in denial carries a huge burden of stress upon loved ones, for me it was like a permanent feeling of dread and sickness that never went away. The main thing is that he is committed to sobriety and with that goal firmly in mind takes things day by day. I was recently told that relapse is part of recovery and actually can bring a long lasting permanent recovery. AA is time consuming so understand that ....in the early days he may do a session nearly every day. Rid your house of all drink. Quit drink yourself if you can (at least never drink in front of him). Discretely ask friends and family never to offer him drink again and ideally not to have it at dinners at all. All this helps. Good luck OP!

I have read your thread OP and just wanted to wish you and your DH every success with his sobriety. You did the right thing bringing it up with him in a calm way. I think if he has admitted being an alcoholic and attended an AA meeting those are massive positive steps in the right direction. My own parents’ lives have been blighted by my dad’s alcoholism, always referred to only as ‘heavy drinking.’ He has never truly admitted his problem or seriously tried to quit, or sought help. He is now in poor health, at hospital 3 times a week but adamant the doctors have told him he can still have ‘a bit of wine.’ I think the key here will be your DH keeping up AA and learning how to lead a sober life. If he thinks it just takes willpower and he can manage it himself it won’t be successful. I truly hope it works for him.

I lost my partner to alcoholism, he went from having no health problems due to drinking to cirrhosis in the space of 18 months & died 4 months later. He was drinking 15 pints & half a bottle of vodka a day until he woke up one morning & looked like he was 9 months pregnant. I dragged him to the doctors & the doctor got him an urgent referral to a liver specialist who told him he had cirrhosis of the liver & wanted to admit him straight away. He refused & spent the last 4 months of his life half heartedly trying to stop drinking & had over 7 litres of fluid drained off his stomach, he was yellow, being sick & bleeding all the time. By the time he was admitted to hospital his liver & kidneys had failed, he was given 48 hours to live, 3 days later he had a massive alcoholic seizure & was on a ventilator for 48 hours, they brought him round & the day after he started bleeding in his lungs & basically drowned in his own blood. It was the most horrific thing I had ever seen, it took him 6 hours to die, the hospital didn't sedate him, he knew everything that was happening to him. It took me another 3 years to stop drinking, I was a binge drinker, I'm 3 years clean now & will never drink again, I can't because it would be too easy to start again, I still have times I want to drink but I won't I have too much to lose. Alcoholics lie & blame everyone else for their drinking, I know because I have done it myself. Saying he has stopped doesn't mean a thing, he needs a detox & counselling & to be on the drugs to keep him off it.

Nat That's horrifying :(
I'm so sorry you (and him) had to go through that.
Why didn't they sedate?

I don't know why, we were all in too much shock of the fact he was dying, the night before they had been discussing him coming home & then we got a phone call the morning after to get to the hospital ASAP. We got there & he was terrified, ripping off the oxygen mask as he was choking on the blood he was coughing up, took them another 2 hours to change the mask to nose prongs. We just had to hold his hands & try to calm him down until he lost consciousness, he then took another 2 hours before he died. It's 6 years on 26th of this month & I still have nightmares about it.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

Alcoholism is a complex problem but I'm shocked that the hospital were so bad

I hope at least your life aside from nightmares is peaceful now.

Why didn't they sedate?

Could be wrong but I think with liver issues, they cant give the normal drugs they would because the person wouldn't be able to process them if their liver isn't functioning. So sorry you went thought that @Nat6999. Absolutely horrific

This is such an emotive thread...

I have always had problems with alcohol.

At my worst, I was drinking a bottle of wine and two cans of premixed gin and tonic every single night.

There is a lot of addiction and mental illness I my mum's family. I have bipolar.

In the end, I contacted my GP and she checked my liver function. The test showed that my liver was beginning to suffer.

This was a huge wake up call. I still drink, but it's just a couple of (large ) glasses of wine a night and I haven't touched gin for months.

My liver function has improved but I still need to cut down.

OP - I am really sorry you are going through this. It must be awful and so worrying.

Addiction is a terrible disease and often involves deceit and denial.

I was hiding gin all over the place and my poor husband was always finding the cans. I hid them everywhere - at one point, I had cans in an old fish tank filter and he still found them!

He confronted me, gently and that conversation actually touched on issues that were making me unhappy and which contributed to the problem.

AA is an incredible fellowship. I never went myself - I see a counsellor now and it is such a help.

I really hope things get better and your husband recovers.

Nat - how absolutely horrendous

@Nat6999...sorry for your loss and thank you for sharing your harrowing story. Having a 19 year old that became an alcoholic after only 4 months of heavy secret drinking (family are lite weekend drinkers) dumbfounded me. I’m amazed that alcohol does not carry the kind of visual warnings that we see printed on tobacco given the addiction level and appalling death it can produce. People and society are way too blasé about alcohol.
I have learnt that tough love with absolute commitment to follow through is the only way forward OP. The drinker now has to prove to YOU that they’re no longer drinking rather than the onus being upon YOU to catch them out and unearth evidence to the contrary which is a shit way of life for loved ones. Poor mental health and alcohol are a toxic mix and many drinkers claim to self medicate because they can’t access support etc....but anti depressants and therapy have limited benefit with drink dumped on top of them. There are so many brilliant initiatives now to support sobriety ...One Year no Beer, Club Soda etc.

Make sure he sticks to the AA sessions no excuses. The early days will be emotional because he will realise the damage that the behaviour has caused to himself and you and that will hurt. But he needs that realisation to turn a corner. Good luck!

@lewes2 can I ask how you are getting on? I have read you post and been keeping an eye on the thread as I am in a similar situation but I don't know what to do about it. My DH has been a drinker since I've known him (nearly 18 years) , we have 2 DC, 16 and 12. I used to work evenings and so wouldn't be home to see what was going on but knew he was drinking every night, not days that I know of but his evening starts at 5pm when he clocks off. I changed jobs in 2014 and now work days but the DC were at clubs and tutor groups 4/5 nights a week so again, I wouldn't be home as I would always be the one taking them as he doesn't like to get involved. On weekends he'd usually go out with his brother as he always WFH and needs to get out, I'm usually tired/didn't have child care so don't really mind. He does work hard and does a lot of work on the house.

Since lockdown 1 I've seen the true extent of his drinking and mentioned it a few times. When under the influence he doesn't get aggressive or abusive (apart from the weekend when he hit me in the face in his sleep, didn't even realise he'd done it, I was awake as he snores so badly I wake a lot) just argumentative and falls asleep, wakes up, drinks more and so on. He has done dry January almost, he lasted to the 28th without drinking (that I know of) and then last weekend decided he was going to go back to 'normal', drinking over 90 units over the Fri, Sat and Sun. I mentioned it and he said he is going to try not to drink in the week and I thought he hasn't been until I checked the rum which I sneakily marked and it has gone down by approx a whisky tumbler amount so he's probably downed this neat when I wasn't looking. I asked him if he's not had a drink all week and he's lied and said no. My 16yo has started to notice a lot and comments to me about it all of the time. I worry he is still over the limit when he does school run (when the DC are in school) as I am at work by 7:30 every day. He complains we have no money, I have mentioned he drinks a few grand a year, but this does not go down well, he is the breadwinner, earns 3.5 times what I do but doesn't hold it over me at all. I don't want to leave him and really can't afford to, just don't think I can carry on like this and I worry about his health. He thinks he is invincible as his family are all drinkers and when his uncle (all day drinker) had a liver test it was fine. But I am more concerned that the DC are starting to worry about it too and I hate it that he doesn't seem to care that it upsets me. Sorry for the lengthy post, feels good to get it all out, this is secret from everyone we know. He's just popped out on his lunch break and bought a box of wine, 6 ciders and a mixer for his remaining rum and gin so looks like a fun weekend ahead....

@Isthismyreality of course, I found it so helpful to be able to share with someone in a similar situation. In terms of my husband, he hasn't had a drink since the beginning of January and is still attending AA online. At the moment he's really in the zone, and hardly struggling. He says he's obviously had the odd occasion (weekend nights mainly) when he's felt like a drink, but it's passed quite quickly. I think the reason it is working for him so far is that, before I even raised it, he had been planning on doing dry January so had already recognised that his drinking was escalating, so when I told him I'd clocked it, that just reinforced it. Obviously I don't know where things will go in the long term, but for the moment, he talks about various things we've got on during the year and how he's going to approach them sober, so I can only believe and support him. People on MN are incredibly quick to judge, tell you he'll never recover, to leave him etc, and I know the odds are stacked against long term recovery, but clearly there are success stories. I don't really feel in a position to advise as we're so early on in the journey, but I think my being very clear that I had decided that I wouldn't no longer stay with him if he continued may have been the shock he needed. I laid out everything that he stood to lose, and how life might look afterwards for him without his home, family, potentially business, driving licence etc etc and he took it on board. I think having that conversation in a calm manner really helped as I think he could really see that I meant it. In your case, I think I would tell him that your DC have started to notice because you'd hope that that might have an impact. The fact that he said he wants to cut back at least shows that he is aware that he has a problem. I think the whole 'I'm invincible' script is really common - my husband has been surrounded by heavy drinkers a lot of his life and none of them have come to a premature end, so he definitely uses that as a defence. The argumentative part was the worst part for me and I too dreaded Friday nights as he'd be at his worse then, having not had a drink all week. He just became a knob and until I managed to detach and not engage with him when he was drunk, we would argue pretty much every Friday. It's so nice to have a break from that.... he's just a much nicer person all round now he's not drinking.

With your husband, sit him down, when he's sober and not hungover and tell him in a really calm supportive way how worried you are, and just test the water. When he dismisses it, which he will, stand your ground and dismiss his lies - I told my husband that I wasn't going to engage with his lying and shut them down - but be very clear that you are not able to continue like this.
I also said to mine that it was of course his choice to carry on drinking, but that it was my choice not to live with it any more, and that I wasn't prepared to carry on. Even if he flares up, at least you will have voiced it and hopefully he will go away and think about it. I would also say, as I did, very clearly that he is not to take the children in the car the morning after he's been drinking, and tell him about your 16 yr old. If he loves them, which I'm sure he doesn't that should really hit a nerve. Good luck, let me know how it goes.