Reasons not to adopt

[Anon42153]

If facing years of fertility issues, and now realisation set in that biological child is not a possibility. Would you adopt? What would your reasons for not wanting to adopt be?

@HeidiHoNeighbour that is a terrible story, poor kids. Can you get some kind of review, kick up a stonk about it? Well done you (hope that doesn't sound patronising)

@percypetulant yes I agree. Psychiatrists say that a child who has someone, anyone, who really gets them and has their back makes a huge difference to outcomes for them. If a child doesn't experience emotional connection with someone as a child it makes it much harder to know what healthy relationship choices should look like as an adult.

@takeyourbootsoff
No point in kicking up anything.
The older they get, the less SS care.

The kids obviously see me and mine as a safe place and I’m happy about that.

They know they can come here or they can phone me and I’ll grab them.

I’ve kept all correspondence from SS, so if they ever try to accuse me of anything I can prove I’m not brain washing!

Totally agree HeidiHoNeighbour my oldest 3 AC's are now adults (Down Syndrome) have not seen a Social Worker since 2015, just a phone call to demand money for day services!
However well done for caring it is a good job somebody does!
None of my business but what the heck are your BC's ages anything to do with your parenting? My children's ages range from 50 - 15 (yes I am an old fart)

@Mynamenotaccepted
I have no idea! I think it’s just another excuse that suits SS - not the kids...

Thank you for your kind words.
All of your children are truly blessed

It’s much, much cheaper to place children with family than to place them in foster care - on that basis alone it won’t suit social work best. If foster carers aren’t reporting children as missing I’d be complaining loudly - the children are presumably under a legal order to stay there? It’s entirely possible to have their legal status reviewed particularly as it would be much easier for social work, as corporate parents, to not be worrying about returning children to care or finding new placements for them - which becomes harder as they get older. If there’s a safe, stable relative to place them with, it makes no sense for them not to do that.

@Jellycatspyjamas
I’m not family to the kids, I’m their fathers ex-wife.

SS seem to have taken against me for some reason, one SW did say she found it weird.
No point in reporting every time they run away, they always come straight to me.

Last time it took them three days to collect them (because I refused to take them to SW office). I even continued taking them to school and picking them up, SW or Foster didn’t even contact school. We are all in the same part of London.

Why should I bother telling SS when they very obviously don’t give a shit.

All they say is “you should move and not tell the kids where you live” because removing the only constant in their lives is the only way forward. Ridiculous.

You could go through the fostering assessment process, many local authorities will let you do that with a particular child or children in mind - it may be more difficult during Covid but I’ve know a couple of situations where that’s happened - usually in cases where the children are known but not related. Social services can’t just have kids over to unrelated people without that assessment process - if you want care of the children it’s worth considering.

@Jellycatspyjamas

That’s what I did. Positive all the way through - house and space good, relationship with the kids is easy and relaxed, financially stable, kids mum good with it, DBS fine etc.
All until one SW found it weird and a bit Bob Geldof.
She was determined to stop it all for the kids.

She had never met the kids (or me).
The kids come here when they want to and I’m not going to stop them.

SS were shit when I was a kid and still are.

IMHO, SS are wasting money on foster parents when they don’t have to.

@HeidiHoNeighbour
I understand your frustrations. It makes no sense ! Some sw should not be in the profession imho. There are some excellent ones of course but some of the ones we have had dealings with have been completely useless if I am being honest.

I believe you, @HeidiHoNeighbour.

@flaviaritt

* even if birth parents never write, they are a huge part of the child’s life and have to be acknowledged/talked about (in our case) regularly.

So... rather than the letterbox being the involvement, it has to be acknowledged that adopted children have 2 sets of parents ... and to underplay the former is storing up a lot of potential:for issues.*

And I honestly believe most people who consider adoption have no idea of that part of it. If I did adopt a child young enough not to remember their birth parents, I would be very much against this model. Obviously with older children it’s not an option for them to have a completely ‘new start’, and that complicates matters, but a 6 month old child removed permanently from a family surely doesn’t have to be raised with this complex emotional situation hanging over them?

Anyway, that’s just my opinion and probably worthless in this context.

You seem to be suggesting deleting part of the child's history is preferable to being honest. Sorry if I've misunderstood.

Our boys were adopted as babies, from before they could talk we would tell them stories about when they came to live with us. Our family extends into their birth sisters family (adopted separately). This is not traumatic for them, it's matter of fact, it's a model of a family. They do have some issues but nothing to do with that contact.

They used to have annual letterbox contact with BM, they were never that interested even though I'd read it to them when they were younger. BM stopped writing about three years ago, they haven't even noticed.

I would never advocate secrecy around a child's life.

Also FWIW - I love my boys more than anything in the world, on an intellectual level I understand that some people worry that they wouldn't feel like this but if I'm honest I think it's an entirely twattish thing to say.

To any adoptees out there, please don't think your parents don't love you as much because you aren't biologically 'theirs'

every happy adoptive parent is happy only because someone else - the birth parent- has gone through perhaps the most horrific thing imaginable aside from the death of a child.

What about the child?!

I have sympathy for birth parents but actually my priority is the kids. They're the ones who are going through trauma and usually abuse.

To any adoptees out there, please don't think your parents don't love you as much because you aren't biologically 'theirs' some adoptive parents say that they do not love their adoptive children.

Some biological parents say they don't love their children too.

@takeoffyourboots Where are these adoptive parents who say they don't love their adoptive children ? Do we have a source ?
I can only speak for myself of course and my own experience but I have birth children, an adopted child and a long term foster child.
I adore them all ! Would do anything for any of them and their biological and / or legal status matters not a jot.
And in my experience of adoptors( and foster carers ) i have never heard that sentiment expressed persomally . Quite the opposite in fact

@flapjackfairy Where are these adoptive parents who say they don't love their adoptive children ? Do we have a source?

Posters on mumsnet, adopters in the press, adopters on other forums....(fgs)
Not a source. Many sources. And when adopters have posted about their grief in this respect other adopters have acknowledge that it is a wide problem and that that adopter is brave to be honest.

So let's not pretend that we are talking about the land of unicorns and rainbows and stand in judgement of other posters who are being honest.

Adopters can also be abusive parents too. Many adoptees give testimony to physical and emotional abuse.

Yes jessstan bio parents can also say they do not love their dc, but statistically I doubt it is the same problem.

@takeyourbootsoff
Ok calm down.
It was a genuine question because it is easy to quote anecdotal stuff as solid fact.
I have frequented lots of forums over the years and have rarely seen people say they don't love their adopted children.
Yes many times I have seen people say it is bloody hard, and they find it hard to bond due to their children's issues. Some say they regret it and wouldn't do it if they could go back in time etc etc but often they admit to loving their kids despite it all but are unable to cope with the issues they raise.
But then on forums such as this I have seen lots of threads (several recently in fact ) bemoaning motherhood and lots of posters pile on to say that they hate being a mother too, despite loving their kids absolutely! They would not be mothers if they had their time again. In fact they use the phrase that they hate being mums .
Surely that is the same thing?

It is convenient to spin the line that adoptors dont love their difficult kids but birth parents do despite using similar language and arguments.
And believe me I don't live in the land of unicorns and rainbows as you put it. More like a land of nappy changing, endless medical needs and more harsh reality than most people thanks to my children's needs.
And I am not judging anyone merely saying that in my extensive experience I have yet to hear that sentiment expressed.
We are all entitled to discuss our experiences are we not !

The place is see that sentiment expressed most here us in the early weeks and months following placement where parents are dealing with huge adjustments and some very challenging behaviours and, as part of a wider worry about adopting say they are struggling to love their new child. I would have been one of those and am very open about having found it very hard to love one of my children.

I love her with all my being now but if you had asked me during those early months I would have wondered if love would ever grow.

In general I think that lack of unconditional love is far from unique to adoption, And usually is in the face of many challenges which impact on parenting. In any event judgement and condemnation for those parents is utterly unhelpful.

They would not be mothers if they had their time again. In fact they use the phrase that they hate being mums .
Surely that is the same thing?

I don’t think it’s the same thing at all. Some folk find that motherhood is far from the Insta-ready experience they thought it would be and don’t enjoy the sheer drudgery and work involved, throw in SEN, or a useless partner, or other complications and it’s easy to see how someone could move their children but really not enjoy being a mum. I know I would hate being a SAHM, I need the variety and challenge of work and if circumstances meant I couldn’t work I wouldn’t like my parenting experience much, but would still love my children.

I think its totally unrealistic for adopters to feel love for their children from day 1. How can you really love a stranger.

8 years along I love my son with everything I have to give. Did I love him the moment I met him? No - but I was convinced that he was the right child for me and was totally committed to him. I told him I loved him every day because he needed to hear that. I’m not sure at what point that turned into real emotion but by the time I was sitting next to him in court listening to the judge talking about families, and having a little cry, I knew I loved him unconditionally.

@flapjackfairy apologies for jumping down your throat. No, the examples aren't the same, I am referring to adopters talking about their grief about not loving their children, many years in, not at the outset, not feeling any parental love and not feeling emotional connection with their dc. I am not saying it in judgement or condemnation. I do think it needs discussion, including what could be done when it happens. You do of course have the adopters who clearly do love their children as per the previous two posts in contrast.

NB I was responding to To any adoptees out there, please don't think your parents don't love you as much because you aren't biologically 'theirs' and that quite simply is not true. I think if you talk to adoptees who grew up in a home where there really was no emotional connection then it might give some perspective here. It is hugely damaging. I know some adoptees personally who experienced this - though obviously that is just anecdotal.

It is true that that situation exists for bio families too. I think there are differences. For adoption I think some of the blame might lie in the fact that for a long time adoption culture was steeped in "cupboard love" theories - this was the dominant theory (I think) in the 50s that children love whoever feeds them. John B then came along with different theories about babies being hard wired to love their bio parents. If you look at the "cupboard love" theories you can see how the issue about no love, no connection was for a long time just not seen as an issue worthy of exploration.

In recent years thinking on this has fundamentally changed, is my understanding and psychiatrists explain that children need connection and where that is lacking it is very, very detrimental for the well being of the child.

@Jellycatspyjamas.
That is my whole point though. It is acceptable for non adopters to express the shitty side of parenting but not for adopters. Why ?
Of course it takes time for love and bonds to grow but some posters are seeming to suggest that most adopters dont love their kids and are regretful.of choosing to adopt in the first place. They suggest a high proportion of adoptions fail which is not substantiated by my.own experience and research.
Or am I misreading this thread ?
I am just making the point that there is little concrete evidence to back up claims that large percentages of adoptions fail .
There is lots of anecdotal evidence on forums and media stories of course just as you can find endless anecdotal stories that support the opposite viewpoint. You know the stories of how adoption is the best thing we ever did etc etc .

Sorry just to clarify loud and clear that any lacking in connection will affect biological children in that situation in the same way as adopted children. I meant it was different in the sense that the help is going to be different, etc.

John B then came along with different theories about babies being hard wired to love their bio parents. If you look at the "cupboard love" theories you can see how the issue about no love, no connection was for a long time just not seen as an issue worthy of exploration.

I think this coupled with a lack of understanding of psychological trauma has a lot to answer for - the idea that if you place a child in a “nice” home, what’s gone before doesn’t matter. Our understanding of child development, trauma informed practice and attachment has developed significantly which I hope will pay dividends down the line.

In relation to rates of adoptions failing, in the sense of complete breakdown of relationship, there are no statistics available. It is all speculation at the moment.