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Adoption

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on adoption.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Reasons not to adopt

325 replies

Anon42153 · 22/10/2020 20:20

If facing years of fertility issues, and now realisation set in that biological child is not a possibility. Would you adopt? What would your reasons for not wanting to adopt be?

OP posts:
Jellycatspyjamas · 26/10/2020 16:34

I forgot to also say your statement here is broad brush - very resilient and emotionally intelligent people will be affected significantly less, and recover significantly more quickly. This would make a significant difference for the children involved. Amongst existing adopters abilities in this area are going to vary significantly.

I think that’s absolutely fair comment, particularly in terms of adopter capacity to reflect and bounce back. I’ve worked with adoptive parents who are both blaming and judgemental of their children, ascribing all their difficulties to the child and their background and really struggle (or are unable to) reflect on their parenting skills and where their part in the relationship might have exacerbated problems. Those parents, and their children, will have a much less positive experience of adoption and in those cases adoption may have done more harm than good to all involved.

Long term fostering can offer stability and security to a child and can also support ongoing relationships with families. I don’t think long term fostering in those cases is a second best to adoption - for some children the relationship offered in adoption is intolerable and long term fostering with the right people is life changing.

There’s no one size fits all, I can think of situations where both worked really well and ones where both were disastrous. There’s so much more work needed to understand how to care for children who can’t live with their birth parents, we can only continue to do the best we can with what we have and as we know better, to change our practice accordingly.

jessstan1 · 27/10/2020 23:33

@percypetulant

If those of us who adopt are so unsuitable, and you'd be so amazing, I think you should volunteer.
If you read what takeoffyourboots said, immediately above you, you would realise she makes sense. She wasn't saying you are an unsuitable adopter but some people are not equipped. My parents weren't. However I know some who were excellent adoptive parents.

Nobody can tell how things are going to pan out. It is a difficult process for all concerned.

jessstan1 · 27/10/2020 23:35

Jellycatspyjamas: I’ve worked with adoptive parents who are both blaming and judgemental of their children, ascribing all their difficulties to the child and their background and really struggle (or are unable to) reflect on their parenting skills and where their part in the relationship might have exacerbated problems. Those parents, and their children, will have a much less positive experience of adoption and in those cases adoption may have done more harm than good to all involved.
....
You're so right there.

jessstan1 · 27/10/2020 23:43

takeoffyourboots:

Many adoptees have said they feel responsible for the feelings of their adoptive parents, and some say that their relationships during childhood and adulthood with the adoptive parent have been dominated by the needs, thoughts and feelings of the adoptive parent. This is not how it should be, I don't think, and part of the problem might be being expressed here - being unrealistic expectations.
...
You really do know what you are talking about.

BastardChild · 28/10/2020 19:11

@takeoffyourboots

BastardChild · 28/10/2020 19:13

@takeoffyourboots I second @jessstan1 there, that's often a huge part of the problems.

This is well documented by Nancy Verrier etc and something I've lived myself and discuss with other adoptees.

jessstan1 · 28/10/2020 21:49

Everyone thinking of adopting, who has adopted or is adopted should read 'The Primal Wound'.

iamadramallama · 29/10/2020 06:46

@jessstan1

Everyone thinking of adopting, who has adopted or is adopted should read 'The Primal Wound'.
On the topic of books to read.....I read this one along with many other books on adoption. Primal Wound is by far my least favourite, but different books will appeal to people differently.

Caroline Archers books I would recommend as accessible and practical.

The book "Playful Parenting" is also good and I have used the ideas in it a lot over the years. Worked very well with my son in the early years as his controlling behaviour was off the charts!

Ladderofyears · 29/10/2020 13:03

I am reading this thread with interest.
I have no personal experience of adoption but in my professional role I see lots of adopted children and adoptive parents before and after the adoption - plus I have a significant number of friends who have adopted.
I remember about 25 years ago going to a teaching session given by the doctor on an adoption panel - he said that his preference for adoptive parents was always those who were less educated themselves and more "working class". At the time I remember arguing with him about his very black and white thinking - he explained that his reasoning was that it was important for adoptive parents not to burden their children with their own experiences and expectations and he found middle class parents were very bad at doing that.
I cannot comment on his experiences but I do see a lot of disappointment amongst some professionals who adopt and who expect their children to be certain things that they are not.
However the most successful adoption story I know is a couple who are very very upper middle class who adopted two children from her country of origin who were abandoned by their mothers at an orphanage at birth - the adoptive mother had traveled to the country and was given the baby at birth (had to stay in the orphanage caring for the baby for 4 weeks and then was allowed to leave and come back to the UK). It's impossible to know what's happening behind closed doors but their children appear to be thriving - intellectually and in every other way. Most of my other friends who adopted have really struggled due to lack of support for children with FAS, significant learning and behavioural needs etc.
My friends who have fostered long term seem to do much better as they get do much more support. One of them has a 17 year old who is doing amazingly, having been placed for neglect at the age of 12, but they get so much in terms of counseling, residential courses and other courses for their foster child - it seems that they can access so much more than adoptive parents...

jessstan1 · 29/10/2020 13:35

That's very interesting and your story of the couple who adopted from abroad reminds me of Saira Khan who did the same, she had to stay out there for a few weeks before bringing her daughter home.

I suppose I 'get' what you mean about expectation from 'middle class' parents though each is different. I was adopted by a very working class family but my biological family was upper middle (I didn't know that until later).

ifchocolatewerecelery · 29/10/2020 13:39

@Ladderofyears the fact that OH is from a working class background, left school at 16 with 1 GCSE A-C and grew up in a council house was seen as a definite positive against the fact that I'm educated to degree level.

Jellycatspyjamas · 29/10/2020 14:02

One of them has a 17 year old who is doing amazingly, having been placed for neglect at the age of 12, but they get so much in terms of counseling, residential courses and other courses for their foster child - it seems that they can access so much more than adoptive parents...

That’s because of the legal status of the child - the local authority have a corporate parenting responsibility for children in long term foster care that they don’t have for children who are adopted. There are pros and cons in both but services can be easier to access in foster care.

Ladderofyears · 29/10/2020 15:30

@Jellycatspyjamas

One of them has a 17 year old who is doing amazingly, having been placed for neglect at the age of 12, but they get so much in terms of counseling, residential courses and other courses for their foster child - it seems that they can access so much more than adoptive parents...

That’s because of the legal status of the child - the local authority have a corporate parenting responsibility for children in long term foster care that they don’t have for children who are adopted. There are pros and cons in both but services can be easier to access in foster care.

Yes I understand that but, now we understand some of the issues relating to neglect and abuse in the very early months it even in utero, it seems so unreasonable that equally good support is not available to adoptive families. One of my friends has had to fight and fight for support that is still relatively poor (having adopted at 9 months but her child is now 15). I'm delighted for the child we know in long term foster care but I'm sad for those who seem to be being failed by support services.
takeoffyourboots · 01/11/2020 11:41

@jessstan1 and @BastardChild just wanted to say thanks. I agree with you, and I think that where adoptees have had difficult experiences, their feedback later on as adults is hugely helpful in helping to direct research and ultimately inform changes.

takeoffyourboots · 01/11/2020 12:28

I remember about 25 years ago going to a teaching session given by the doctor on an adoption panel - he said that his preference for adoptive parents was always those who were less educated themselves and more "working class". At the time I remember arguing with him about his very black and white thinking - he explained that his reasoning was that it was important for adoptive parents not to burden their children with their own experiences and expectations and he found middle class parents were very bad at doing that

I cannot comment on his experiences but I do see a lot of disappointment amongst some professionals who adopt and who expect their children to be certain things that they are not

I would have argued with the doctor about his thinking too. I am wondering if it is this sort of thinking which has been picked up on by the 2018 Independent Enquiry as being problematic, as it is not based on research. Being a "professional" does not equate with his criticisms – it was the individual professionals he had come across he was criticising and probably their training and expectations which were at fault - professionals as a whole are likely to have many skills which would be helpful, such as resilience and determination, the ability to absorb new information. Working class does not equal not professional or educated and it didn't 25 years ago either - my (now Russell Grant) university even back then was awash with students from working class/lower middle class families, mostly from grammar schools, who nearly all went on to become professionals. I think having a degree would help. As I said upthread I think the most important qualities needed being willing and able to undertake the hard work to help a child recover from trauma and be able to give love even when not always receiving it back in the way they want until the child has healed. Getting the right information to enable them to do this better signposted would be helpful.

In relation to the professionals who were disappointed, the sort of stimulation and interaction a child gets is going to have a huge impact on how well they do at school and other activities. It is very likely that the children involved were not getting the right help and I think it would be better to focus on increasing understanding how this can be done would be better than lowering expectations. Having high expectations of every child is important, including adoptees. A child who is not fulfilling their potential is not going to be happy and fulfilled and this just continues the circle of problems.

In relation to breakdowns, whether we are talking about 50 percent or 5 percent or 95 percent, a positive is that there are success stories, and analysing what made them success stories is helpful and I think we need to get better at doing this.

user1497873278 · 02/11/2020 10:40

KitKatastrophe, I loved my beautiful girl the moment I saw her, who the hell are you to say otherwise, I find your comments the most offensive I have ever heard.

jessstan1 · 03/11/2020 04:07

My mum used to say that about me, user1497; didn't stop her making my life a misery most of the time. I couldn't wait to be old enough to escape.

takeoffyourboots · 03/11/2020 09:01

@user1497873278 to be fair to the user you quoted @KitKatastrophe many adopters write about problems they have with loving their adoptive children, and/or about how the love is different, and there have been adopter posters on mumsnet who have talked about their grief about not loving their ac ten years in. If you feel love however, then that is wonderful.

user1497873278 · 03/11/2020 11:24

Yes same here jesstan1, and my mum was my BM. Takeoffyourboots, I have read many times on MN threads, about BP telling their children that they didn’t really want them, never felt love for them etc. My point is that no matter how you have your children, if your a good parent, you love them unconditionally whatever happens 10 years down the line. Many BP aren’t maternal and aren’t able to offer love and support to their children for various reasons, sometimes from personal experience they just can’t put anyone else before themselves, even a child

takeoffyourboots · 03/11/2020 13:25

if [you're] a good parent, you love them unconditionally whatever happens 10 years down the line an adopter wrote on mumsnet not long ago about their grief about not loving their dc unconditionally 10 years down the line - are you saying they are not a good parent? What would you say to adopters who have said that their love for their ac is not the same as for their bc - are you saying they are wrong or bad parents? And if so why are you attacking the pp kitkatostrophe for highlighting the problem? I am genuinely confused.

percypetulant · 03/11/2020 16:18

I think unconditional love is the essence of being a parent. That love grows slowly for many birth and adoptive parents. But if you get your child to adulthood and they've not been loved unconditionally, that's a bit sad. And that child has been deprived of something they have a right to, really.

I think adoption, giving permanence, is more likely to give unconditional love than multiple foster placements. I think denying that unconditional love is the foundation of parenting undermines what children who don't get that, for whatever reason, have lost.

Children deserve love. If they don't get it, then adults have failed them. Sometimes, people fail despite their very best efforts.

user1497873278 · 04/11/2020 08:03

Can’t see what’s confusing children need to know that they are loved unconditionally by at least one adult to thrive, do some research on it

HeidiHoNeighbour · 04/11/2020 08:27

Just throwing my story in.

When my ex-h died, his wife had a breakdown and their children were removed by SS.
I offered to take them in.

They are my childrens siblings and I have the space, money etc.

I just wanted them to have the same as my children did/do.

The way SS acted, you’d have thought I wanted to sacrifice them!
They thought it was ‘weird’ and to quote lead social worker “a bit Bob Geldof”
They then decided age difference between my children and siblings was too much - 6 years - even though there is 8 years between the two children.

They are now in long term foster care.
5th house in two years.

flapjackfairy · 04/11/2020 09:00

@HeidiHoNeighbour
As a foster carer and adoptor I have to say that I am sometimes baffled by some of the decisions made. Though sometimes we do not have all the relevant information to base our judgements on of course.

HeidiHoNeighbour · 04/11/2020 09:23

@flapjackfairy

It’s utter madness.
They ran away from their last two foster homes.
Came straight to me.

Stupidly I told police and SS each time. Foster didn’t.
They recommend that I move so that they don’t know where I live.

Couldn’t make it up.

I won’t report next time, see how long it takes them to notice.