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Adoption

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When did you start to feel that parental attachment?

84 replies

user1479136681 · 05/04/2020 16:43

I still feel like I'm babysitting someone else's kid. When did you feel like your LO was actually 'yours'?

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 26/04/2020 00:55

@Clarion19 hi, we had Theraplay, which is a specific kind of play therapy, when ds was 6 (he had been with us over 2 years at that stage). More recently, at age 9, we had Video Interaction Guidance, (VIG). I found both of these helpful. He's now been with us almost 6 years.

I am glad the DDP is working well.

Good luck and all the best, it is not easy, I think parenting is the hardest thing I've ever done, or are ever likely to do!

Thanks
schmockle · 26/04/2020 10:50

@Mynamenotaccepted Flowers for your loss. your honesty will be a such relief to many parents do you mean that you think many parents feel the same thing?

@Clarion19 I found your posts so worrying and I think that you need more than ddp from what you say. Have they been assessed by a psychiatrist? I also think that you would benefit from help with your parenting and understanding of your dc's needs, help to understand the issues you have raised such possible manipulative behaviour and your expectations and some informed insight about what you have said about them living independently because it sounds very confused and it shouldn't be. If your dc are growing up without a love connection and understanding it will have a significantly negative impact on them. You sound as though you care very much and as though you are not happy with the status quo, and so I really hope that your family can find the right help for you,to turn things around.

Clarion19 · 26/04/2020 11:21

your honesty will be a such relief to many parents... do you mean that you think many parents feel the same thing?

Many adoptive parents that I know do feel similarly and haven't had that ‘kick in the guts’ . The narrative among some that all adoptions result in this happening is, IMHO, misleading and unhelpful.

I found your posts so worrying and I think that you need more than ddp from what you say. Have they been assessed by a psychiatrist?

They have both been assessed by Clinical Psychologists. We are receiving more than DDP, that’s just the therapy we’re getting that’s relevant to DH and me, rather than the children.

I also think that you would benefit from help with your parenting and understanding of your dc's needs, help to understand the issues you have raised such possible manipulative behaviour and your expectations

We understand all the theory and have been active learners in the field of developmental trauma, attachment and resultant behaviours for approaching 9 years...since well before we adopted.

and some informed insight about what you have said about them living independently because it sounds very confused and it shouldn't be

Which bit is confused? The Clinical Psychologist agrees with me.

If your dc are growing up without a love connection and understanding it will have a significantly negative impact on them

I don’t mean to be rude, but this sounds patronising.

You sound as though you care very much and as though you are not happy with the status quo, and so I really hope that your family can find the right help for you,to turn things around

Happy with the status quo? I wouldn’t say that but then, show me a parent who thinks they’re perfect and I’ll show you a liar. Trying to balance improving ourselves, our parenting and our emotional attachments with acceptance of how things are and ensuring our expectations (of both ourselves and our children) aren’t too high? Absolutely.

OP, I hope you don’t feel your thread has been derailed.

The point I’m making is try not to put too much pressure on yourself and ’force the feelings’. It’s a marathon not a sprint. We definitely feel differently to how we did after a few months. They do feel like ’ours’ now whereas back then they didn’t.

Take one day at a time, go easy on yourself (the ‘accept’ and ‘empathy’ bit of PLACE!) and realise what you’re feeling is ok.

Italiangreyhound · 26/04/2020 11:35

@Clarion19 thank you for being honest. I think I would say a lot of parents of challenging children do all feel similar. Our kids are challenging. One is a birth child and one is adopted. We love them both and they are sometimes difficult to parent. I sometimes feel I am failing.

What i do think that is amazing is how things can sometimes change quite quickly, in both directions. One minute you feel you are coping or even doing well, and then your child says something hurtful and you feel like you are crumbling. Another day it is all going horribly and you fear you really will say or do something bad, and then things turn around.

We've had a lot of post adoption support, which also helps with our birth child. One thing that is emphasized is making connection. However small. And this has helped a lot. (We do this through shared activities, board games and sweets, movie and popcorn, watching a TV series with the older one, talking etc - none of it is rocket science). But it is now, for me at least, more of a conscious pursuit.

But it's never easy. Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks

Italiangreyhound · 26/04/2020 11:35

@user1479136681 how are you doing?

user1479136681 · 26/04/2020 11:59

It has been very interesting to read all your comments, thank you :) not worried about derailment!

I posted this when I was feeling pretty down and couldn't see it improving. Lots of people had spoken about the kick in the guts and knowing their child was "the one." But it is getting better now. We're bonding and both growing more affectionate, although DS has a better bond with my wife at the moment.

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 26/04/2020 12:30

Great news.

schmockle · 27/04/2020 14:50

OP that is great news.

@Clarion19 An example of something I found confusing was that you thought your dc were advanced enough to be manipulating you but that they would probably not be able to lead independent lives. Did your clinical psychologist think your dc were being manipulative?

In relation to a lot of things you list, has your clin psych gone through with you all the exercises and other things you can do to actively improve these areas, and how to distinguish problems from "normal"?

They both have working memory issues and have literally no ‘cause and effect’

They cannot think for themselves (they come to me for every decision

[They never] learn from their actions

Also:

But, to me, our relationship is hard work and I am frustrated with them a lot of the time...I am sure that frustration must be ‘transmitted’ to them no matter how hard I try to temper it and they get a negative narrative much of the time....I get little to no joy from parenting them

I agree with you that they will pick up on this and I think it would very strongly affect their behaviour, their stress levels, and as we all know stress very significantly affects your cognitive abilities - so this will be relevant to the problems such as not seeing cause and affect/not learning from mistakes/etc. What has your ClinPsych said about this and other parenting strategies?

patonising the comment on connection and damage wasn't meant to be patronising - bear in mind that I was responding to your posts on here alone, I don't know you or what knowledge you have, and it isn't correct that all adopters are aware.

Did you find the ClinPsych input helpful?

Stinkyjellycat · 27/04/2020 15:15

@schmockle

@Clarion19 has been very honest on this thread. You’re now asking very intrusive questions about input from a Clin Pysch and their findings. Is this really necessary? Clarion is working with an extremely well qualified professional who knows what they are doing. Any gaps in their post are likely because they are maintaining their privacy and that of their DC.

Clarion - I hope things improve for you Flowers

schmockle · 27/04/2020 17:11

@stinkyjellycat You’re now asking very intrusive questions about input from a Clin Pysch and their findings No I am not, I am responding to what was said. It should go without saying that breaches of privacy aren't being asked for. The problems mentioned will be common to many families.

Clarion19 · 27/04/2020 19:10

@Clarion19 An example of something I found confusing was that you thought your dc were advanced enough to be manipulating you but that they would probably not be able to lead independent lives

Manipulative doesn’t always equal advanced - obviously.

in relation to a lot of things you list, has your clin psych gone through with you all the exercises and other things you can do to actively improve these areas, and how to distinguish problems from "normal"?

The subtext to your question might, to some, appear to be a variation of the ‘all children do that’ theme and that, if only we listened to the experts and parented differently/better, all these things would go away.

I’m sure you think you’re being supportive but you’re coming across as interrogatory. Can I suggest you give me the benefit of the doubt and assume that we have done enormous amounts of work over the last few years with varying professionals, still find ourselves struggling, and have recognised that/are continuing to work at it... and show some empathy?

Additionally - If you want to be helpful to others reading the thread, as your latest comment suggests, perhaps it might be more useful talking through/linking some of the exercises to which you refer?

I agree with you that they will pick up on this and I think it would very strongly affect their behaviour, their stress levels, and as we all know stress very significantly affects your cognitive abilities - so this will be relevant to the problems such as not seeing cause and affect/not learning from mistakes/etc. What has your ClinPsych said about this and other parenting strategies?

Multiple professionals (with experience of early developmental trauma) have said the children need further therapy to process their early experiences. That one of them will made no inroads whatsoever until this is put in place, regardless of what we do. That we are doing a very good job. That our own childhood experiences lead us to be highly and overly critical of ourselves and our abilities.

Did you find the ClinPsych input helpful?

Yes.

Allington · 28/04/2020 09:26

I have never had the emotional connection with DD1 that I had with DD2. Growing up without a 'love connection' has not done the damage, that was done before I ever met her. Because of my care for her, day in and day out, some of that damage has been healed, but not all. But I suspect she will always be quite calculating in her relationships, and never really 'get' a 'love connection'.

Attachment is often called a 'dance' or 'serve and return'. It takes parent AND child to be able to give and receive, and no matter how much the parent puts in, if the child is unable to respond, or experiences a connection as a threat to their survival, it isn't going to happen.

@Clarion19 I hope things improve. DD1 is a lovely young woman, and I am so proud of her and the journey she has made. As Ted27 will confirm, that is not something I would have said a few years ago...!

SFCA · 28/04/2020 10:04

We are foster carers and had never planned on adopting. Some of our foster children were with us for a few years. I really enjoyed caring for all of them and I adored them. Then I got a call to collect a child from hospital for a fostering placement. I bought him home and by the next morning DH and I were both head over heels with him, I do not know how to explain the fact he felt like our son overnight. We are so lucky that we were able to adopt him. We still foster and really enjoy it but don’t have that parental attachment with our current placement even though he is completely delightful and significantly ‘easier’ than our son 😂

DH and I have discussed this. We would love to adopt again in the future but what if we didn’t feel the same way about that child as we do about our son? We know they would be treated the same and they would grow up with love and affection. I believe it isn’t to do with adoption or birth children, as human beings we form different relationships with different people and I think that is true of children too.

You can’t make yourself feel something and you can’t stop yourself either. I don’t agree that it affects the child’s upbringing I am sure that @Clarion19 doesn’t sit the children down and explain exactly how she feels, she gets up every morning and parents her children and that is what matters.

Italiangreyhound · 28/04/2020 20:21

@Clarion19 you are very patient.

Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks ThanksThanks Thanks ThanksThanks Thanks ThanksThanks Thanks ThanksThanks Thanks Thanks

Pickles89 · 28/04/2020 20:38

@SFCA This may be a question for another thread, but as someone who is very keen to foster one day I was interested to know how you would approach this - if one of your little charges asked you the first day or so if you loved them, what would you say? On the one hand you want them to feel secure, but on the other you want the word 'love' to really mean something don't you. I do a lot of babysitting and have been asked a couple of times, leaving me not knowing what to say. Obviously you can respond with a really warm 'I think you're awesome!' but what if they push it? Actually saying, 'Yes, I love you!' feels very heavy for a brand new introduction.

121Sarah121 · 29/04/2020 08:42

I found reading this very interesting. I think a lot of the points are very valid. Sometimes the love is instant and sometimes it grows. That, In my opinion, is different from attachment. I didn’t really understand this until my own adoption journey and I can reflect on it. My son joined our family aged 3 years after never forming an attachment to anyone (it is a sad story). I knew I loved him instantly and there was definitely strong feelings from him. He desperately wanted to be loved and accepted. So he started a really strong charm offence and I fell for it (and so does anyone meeting him.) I thought it was love but on reflection, found out it as manipulation. Manipulation for survival. I see it all the time with other people. But I loved him. It worked on me!

Fast forward the months and we do have a strong attachment. It is so intense sometimes that it is hard to cope. For both of us. The emotions can be so intense it’s unhealthy and I am aware of it. But he is a complex little boy who for a very long time was scared to love, to be happy. But through love and patience (and many many many hours of dysregulation) we are getting there and there is an attachment. Unfortunately, I don’t think the same for my son and husband. Yes, there is love, yes there is caring but my son hasn’t got an attachment. Not the same way. I don’t know if he will ever have an attachment with his dad. If he is able to have an attachment with more than one person. But his dad parents him well with the love and compassion that he needs. But I don’t think it should be worried about. If it happens then wonderful, if it doesn’t, he will always have two parents who love him

schmockle · 02/05/2020 21:34

@Clarion19 I am sorry about the delay in responding. I have read and I understand your latest post. I will respond to what you have said but there is no need to reply, I don't want to tread on toes, feel free to ignore.

The subtext to your question might, to some, appear to be a variation of the ‘all children do that’ theme and that, if only we listened to the experts and parented differently/better, all these things would go away no I don't think that but I do think that children who have suffered trauma and attachment problems will also need to be parented in relation to normal development behaviours too.

Multiple professionals (with experience of early developmental trauma) have said the children need further therapy to process their early experiences. That one of them will made no inroads whatsoever until this is put in place, regardless of what we do So from this it sounds as though they need therapy they are not yet getting, specialist therapy to process early experiences, which makes sense.I would be really interested to know what therapy has been suggested but again please don't reply if you don't want to.

I’m sure you think you’re being supportive but you’re coming across as interrogatory. Can I suggest you give me the benefit of the doubt and assume that we have done enormous amounts of work over the last few years with varying professionals, still find ourselves struggling, and have recognised that/are continuing to work at it... and show some empathy? I haven't assumed anything lacking in you. Usually when parents post on MN wanting help they are keen and sometimes desperate for any new possibilities or insights and my message was that there are going to be answers out there. In my first post I empathised that you were clearly caring and it was tough.

Additionally - If you want to be helpful to others reading the thread, as your latest comment suggests, perhaps it might be more useful talking through/linking some of the exercises to which you refer? I would be very happy to but can I just ask first, what your CP said about the lack of autonomy and your frustrations, and I am not asking here for any breach of privacy, more whether they provided you with strategies to help with both your frustration and the lack of autonomy, and have you used limiting choices strategies?

manipulation - you said you thought that your dc were advanced in some ways and manipulative and manipulation is not a word I would expect professionals to use about a child and so I was interested to know what they had said. Again, if you don't want to reply that is fine.

schmockle · 02/05/2020 21:38

@allington my personal view is that connection isn't to do with whether a child responds in a sort of throw the ball back way, more to do with the child feeling that they are very understood by their adult, that they are being helped to understand themselves and how they fit with the world, that their adult has their back completely and will mostly know the best thing to do for them, because they know them well. And the long term relationship will grow from that. I think the throw the ball back thing happens between adults, not between parents and dc, when the dc are children. But that is just a personal view.

Allington · 03/05/2020 09:53

@schmockle The Center for the Developing Child at Harvard University disagrees with you.

The role of 'serve and return' in adult/child interactions for healthy child development

Italiangreyhound · 03/05/2020 12:16

I think this link may work better @Allington. And thanks for sharing.

developingchild.harvard.edu/science/key-concepts/serve-and-return/

Nice little video of 5 steps.

I am wondering if I can use this with my older children, in an age appropriate way.

The dialogue between adult and child is something we talked about a fair bit in the early days. I just can't remember what it was called. Sort of a social commentary on what is happening.

And OP @user1479136681 how is it going? Re " But it is getting better now. We're bonding and both growing more affectionate, although DS has a better bond with my wife at the moment."

It does seem in adoption circles the bond does develop with one parent first and then onto the other (if there are two). It was very much that way with our adopted son and our birth daughter.

schmockle · 07/05/2020 20:55

@Allington I have just seen this, sorry. The article is talking about how if a child does not receive reciprocal attention it can be damaging. The use of the words "serve and return" in the article is in a different context to what I thought you were saying, which was that you can only form a bond with a child if they are "returning" the ball back. I think what i said was right, even though the article used the words "serve and return" in a differnt context. The article doesn't refer to what you had referred to, I believe.

schmockle · 07/05/2020 21:23

@allington the video is great, though, thank you for sharing.

Allington · 11/05/2020 11:02

@schmockle you might want to research 'blocked care', which often occurs when the child cannot manage the 'return'. That does 'block' the formation of a bond.

some info here as a starting point

Jellycatspyjamas · 11/05/2020 15:38

It’s not helped by the fact that, when it’s in their interests, they act in advance of their ages, not years and years behind it. It makes me wonder if they really are struggling, or just manipulative.

I think that’s very common in children who have experienced early trauma, neglect and abuse. You don’t say how old your DC are and how old they were at placement but my two were older (4 and 6) and I recognise the sometimes seeming to act older than their years. My DD particularly has processing difficulties which mean cause and effect/consequences is very difficult for her to understand and retain. And yet at other times she can negotiate like a pro. It feels manipulative, and probably is to some extent in that she had years of having to manipulate people into feeding her, or meeting any of her needs. I hold that constantly in mind that for her life has been about doing whatever she could to just get enough food, or to be acknowledged in any way amongst a group of siblings all trying to do the same. She won’t unlearn that easily and will always revert back to that behaviour when she feels unsafe - it kept her alive at one point.

I see times when she seems to be manipulative as signs that she’s struggling - the two aren’t mutually exclusive, and I know it’s not her intent to manipulate, her intent is to have her perceived needs met - there’s no malice in it.

I don’t however see our relationship as transactional - I really struggled to like her early on, and love has come slowly and sometimes our relationship can be quite volatile but she is mine. I see parts of myself in her and can see her strengths, the things that set her apart and make her loveable. I love her, but I needed to actively look for the signs that she’s struggling rather than labelling her behaviour as manipulative, or defiant or malicious.

The bottom line is that she can’t do the “serve and return” because what was served to her was shit in every way and it’s not her job to fix that. And I need to accept that her “return” might not look like good behaviour, or understanding cause and effect, or managing tasks that others her age can do easily.

There’s a theory that attractive children are more resilient because they are more likeable and so get more positive strokes. The “serve and return” theory perpetuates that, and there’s probably some truth in it - my DS is much easier to love because he has a more reciprocal approach to relationships, he was removed at a much earlier age than my DD and his experience in foster care was much better (probably because he was easier).

I get the frustration, and how hard it is - my DD is always at my back, always needing direction, always in physical contact and it’s so tiring - while I’m answering one question she already moved on to the next thing and is asking something else, she rarely listens to an explanation before she’s off doing the thing and making mistakes. She has no sense of risk or personal danger and needs watched constantly. I have to bite my tongue a hundred times a day, sometimes I have to walk out of the room I’m so frustrated with her

And other folk don’t understand because she looks ok, a bit needy but ok because she can mask for Britain. And “all children do that”, all children do bits of it at different times but not to the extent she does, or with the intensity. And the sign for me that attachment is growing is that she lets me see that part of her because I know that when her behaviour is at its most challenging, it’s because she feels at her most vulnerable.

And if that knowledge doesn’t drive care, compassion and love for her I don’t know what would.

Italiangreyhound · 11/05/2020 21:13

Jelly "I see parts of myself in her" that is so beautiful. My adopted son is very like me in personality and in terms of the things he likes which could be perceived as weakness! For example we both love being on the sofa! So i do see so much of myself in him!

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