Adoption social work ask for embryos to be destroyed

[patrick80]

My DW and I have been trying to have children for years without success. This culminated in us spending a lot of money on IVF which too was unsuccessful. We decided that the emotional stress (and financial stress) was too much and so gave up on IVF. Now a couple of years later we are going through the adoption process and obviously the IVF came up. During a discussion with the social worker, it was mentioned that we had some frozen embryos which are still being stored (not that we have any plans to use them). The SW told us it would count against us unless we had them destroyed. I am being unreasonable in thinking this request was completely unacceptable?

Not really panic, more of a self fulfilling prophecy.

To clarify a bit, as I’m really not trying to offend, I don’t believe social workers are the gods of the needs of adopted children, or any children.

I think that what all children, adopted or not, desperately need (apart from love and material shelter, food etc. which is a given) is a sense of belonging, of where they fit into the world and their family. I think it’s a really strong grounding for a happy future when a child has a sense of stability and ‘this is my mum / dad / brother / sister.’ That stands whether adopted or otherwise.

I think too much is asked from prospective adoptive parents in this respect and it is unfair to them but also very unfair to the children. Destroying embryos won’t make children the OP may adopt in the future any safer, it will in all probability lead to resentment hurt and grief down the line.

@TatianaLarina as part of the adoption process, all potential adopters have to have a medical. As the doctor examines you he/she fills it in whilst comparing/referencing your medical history. Details within the medical include fertility treatment as well as everything else. You have to sign to say you are happy for all of this to be passed over to SS. The doctor has to sign it to say it’s all correct - so they do kinda have access to your medical records, because anything of note will be included on the medical.

@thehareandthemoon if you genuinely weren't trying to offend or be superious you'd have stopped writing a couple of posts back

Oh, so no one can have an opinion apart from ones that agree with you? Alright then

I haven't said whether I agree or not you on the other hand have thrown out some really offensive comments

Sorry but the world and the forum doesn’t revolve around what you personally find offensive. I find it bloody offensive that social workers think they can inform women what to do with their bodies, actually, but my finding it offensive doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be a discussion about it.

Social workers are on the childs side and try to ensure to the best of their abilities that the childs needs are centred and come first. It might feel shit to the prospective parent that the social worker is advocating for the need of the child rather than them, but the child is better off not being adopted if the adoption will break down.

I agree about the sense of belonging being an important factor. It's a basic need that too often isn't met within adoption or foster care.

As I've understood it, though, the adoption SW didn't say the OP and his DW had to destroy the embryos; it's obviously not something she could insist upon. She said that it might count against them at panel. But the assessment will include lots of other factors following on from the assessment interviews.

It's up to the OP and his DW to demonstrate their commitment to being adoptive parents. They'll look at the whole picture. But their priority is deciding whether you can provide a loving home to children placed with you, not on facilitating you becoming parents.

As an encouragement, when we adopted DD2, there were concerns about my MH (tightly so), and our SW said that she thought that it might count against us. But when it came to panel, that didn't get brought up at all. We already had 1 DD who was well settled with us, and thriving, and who was the birth sister of the child we were applying to adopt.

There's a long road ahead, and if you really want to go ahead with adopting a child, there will be many more challenging questions to answer.

I agree with @ElizabethG8. DW and I have no plans to use the frozen embryos. We have put IVF behind us and are full committed to adoption. That doesn't change the fact I find it in appropriate to make such a request. Where does it end? Do they want me to have vasectomy, do they want my DW to be sterilised. It is not unreasonable to ask use not to continue with IVF but hinting/suggesting/requesting embryos are destroyed in my mind is unethical.

To respond to some of the comments on here. The fact we are now past assessment and waiting for panel shows we are well aware of what is required of prospective adoptive parents. We are both well aware of the challenges of looked after children. You don't get to panel stage without being aware as possible what you are taking on. Some of the comments on here seem to think we have no knowledge of what is required. Also some of the comments on here are ridiculous, suggesting because I object to an ethically dubious request I'm not ready to adopt. I couldn't roll my eyes any harder.

@patrick80 that is a massive drip feed. At no point have you given the impression that you were so far advanced in the process. I take it the issue has therefore been resolved to some extent

It’s not a drip feed, it’s just that some posters jumped to conclusions.

Did the OP ask for this thread to be moved to Adoption.

@thehareandthemoon yes

Fair enough patrick - just do be aware that people who have gone through with adoption tend to believe or at least accept what the social workers believe is best. Other parts of the board may not be quite as certain that what is proposed is right.

I think it could count against you as it will raise more questions as to whether you have fully grieved for the fact that you won’t have a biological child. I think this can often be set aside based on how long it has been since the last IVF, your reasons for giving up on it and whether or not you have both had counselling to process the emotions around it. However, I suppose by Still having embryos it may raise the question as to whether you have truly “let go” of having a biological child.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that you need to have dealt with the complex issues around failed IVF before starting the adoption process.

I think the social worker saying it may count against you is correct, however I don’t think they can demand you destroy the embryos but be prepared for further questions in regards to them.

@thehareandthemoon

I think you will find that most adopters aren't slaves to the SW thought police. My son's SWs were useless, nice ladies but didnt have a clue, my social workers have been variable. I don't blindly accept or believe what they say.

@Ted27 Exactly same experience for DH and me. DD1's SW was useless but DD2's SW was excellent. It's not that we agree with everything individual SWs say, but at the end of the day, SWs are a fact of life for adoptive families so there's no point in banging your head against a brick wall.

If the OP and his DW have been given a panel date, that means that the adoption SW is supporting their application, otherwise she wouldn't have gone for a panel date. In other words, she hasn't insisted on the embryos being destroyed. She's simply pointed out that the panel might have concerns about it. But there's also a strong likelihood that they won't, as the SW has already asked the relevant questions about the embryos.

Good luck with the panel, OP, I hope it goes well. I've been through it twice, and both times it was less of an ordeal than I expected it to be.

Interesting to see you back and letting us know how far on you are in the process OP. From experience I found that any SW worth their salt will bring up things that might be a possible bone of contention at panel. You have to be fully prepared to discuss your reasons for keeping your embryos and not be 'offended' by the question, that is the point, because they probably will ask.
I can understand that you feel fully prepared, we did when at your stage. But just like any new parent, you have no real idea how this will impact you until you actually have a child placed with you.

I doubt many parents on this thread now think they were actually fully prepared for any eventuality. We certainly weren't.
We found the advice of experienced adoptive parents invaluable and still do 14 years in.

@thehareandthemoon appears to have some amazing experience and research that makes them more knowledgable than any one else.

I can see the ethical dilemma in the request, but I suppose they'll want yo know what's your plan going forwards for the embryos.

The thing is it could count against you, it might not even be mentioned. But if it is you have to explain your reasons why without getting offended or going "because I want to and you can't make me!". While true that they can't make you a judgement could be made as to how far you are prepared to put the child first, what your priorities are etc.

I think knowing about the possibility and preparing your answers/thought process and being ready to the possibility of questioning can only help in making it more successful.

A lot of the people replying have only tried to explain why it's an issue and the thought process behind it. You don't have to agree with it, but it would be helpful to try and understand it and not see it as a slight/discrimination/ infringement of rights against you as people or parents.

lexical references that everyone fully understands.’

Including adopted children who hear it and wonder why they are being referred to as something other than ‘own’ when discussing their family..

Come onnnn..... surely you understand that is likely to be problematic for some children with identity issues?? An adopted poster - on this very thread - has said they don’t like it and yet people persist with using language that can very very easily be altered by substituting ‘own’ with ‘birth’.

And besides... the point you are making makes absolutely no sense. Adopted kids generally aren’t the same as birth children in terms of the issues they face and the root causes. Very few people who have adopted will say they are. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t afford them basic respect in the language we use about and to them.

Anyway @patrick80 sorry to derail. Have you read the thread I posted above? That was a similar scenario which resulted in the adopter declining the request and ultimately being approved by the panel.

is a sense of belonging, of where they fit into the world and their family. I think it’s a really strong grounding for a happy future when a child has a sense of stability and ‘this is my mum / dad / brother / sister.’ That stands whether adopted or otherwise.

Exactly.

WTCT I can understand it. But we know what the poster meant - your own = gave birth to.

My personal view is that the more of a big deal is made regarding things like that, the more likely it is children are going to be upset by it. Believing that doesn’t mean I don’t understand why it might be upsetting for some. It’s fine to correct, but it can become a bit othering. I’ve tried in the past (and a long time ago) to discuss this but a bit of an us-and-them mentality starts, with those who have been through the adoption process on one side and those who haven’t on the other, and I think that is what Didkdt is trying to do here - apologies if you aren’t Didkdt but the problem is, a lot of things that were once considered offensive are now spoken about openly because people had the courage to put it on the table, if you like.

As for this matter, all I know is how I would feel. I’ve been through IVF. I decided not to go through the adoption process because everything seemed to scream at me that this wouldn’t be my child. You can’t name her, you have to talk to her about her poor, poor birth parents who weren’t able to look after her, you have to remind her at every god given opportunity that she is different - it didn’t sit comfortably with me at all. Obviously the people who went through the process feel differently. Perhaps I would have forced myself to feel differently if it really was my only hope to have a child, but I know for certain telling me what to do with my body would be an absolute, definitely absolutely-no-fucking-way, are you kidding me? That is just my view and is not designed to offend, by the way.