Changing first name

[mollymollymoo]

Hi
It's looking really likely that we've been matched with a little girl - very excited! However - her current name is so identifying and ridiculous that even our social worker has said they can work with us to change it.
She'll be nearly 2 when she comes home.

Does anyone have any experience of this, the practicalities etc?

This is our 2nd adoption and we would have been more than happy to keep her name otherwise.. but really it is awful and not fair on her to have to grow up with it!!

In the spirit of not derailing the thread (sorry everyone!) I thinknwe can all go round and round in circles talking about identity. However, there is NEVER going to be on true answer or one approach that fits all adopted children. Sometimes in life, you have to go with the lesser evil. Sometimes that lesser evil is changing a name. I learnt long ago that some situations cannot be resolved, only handled/contained/worked through.

I’ve been a social worker in an adoption team and I can promise you sibling groups are separated constantly especially younger children. It is a very big ask for children to go from no children to four children especially for with very little in the way of financial support. The LA I worked for was a large inner city but I also worked for a smaller one and it was the same in both authorities. I knew of 3 little girls who were put with 3 different families and one of the families was not going to tell the baby she was adopted. As children get older less people are looking to adopt them so they remain in foster care often with private agencies. I have also been to panel whereby the panel members question the prospective adopters ability to care for larger sibling groups and they are given a very tough time, which as the people here who have been to panel will know can be a very challenging experience. It’s just not true (in my experience to say siblings are not separated) it’s a very common occurrence and one which I really struggled with as a professional having gone through that experience.

I agree with Kr1 points regarding the adoption allowance and the other points which she raises as barriers to adopting large sibling groups and the hoops prospective adopters have to jump through to prove they are up to it. When assessing families in child protection the threshold is good enough parenting but within fostering and adoption the threshold is higher than that. But in reality most ‘everyday’ parents fall into the good enough category.

Social workers say a lot of things. They also withhold a lot of things!

Oopps! That should have been big ask for prospective adopters to go from no children to four and not children!

Evergreentree "I knew of 3 little girls who were put with 3 different families and one of the families was not going to tell the baby she was adopted."

I understand sometimes it can be in children's best interests not to all be adopted together but o believe it is never right to withhold that information from a child. I also believe it will come out and will devastate when it does!

Did social workers know this?

boom If you debate a point by saying "you said x and i disagree because of y" that is challenging the post. If you say "you are xyz and you think xyz even though you haven't actually said it" that is challenging the poster and not generally seen as acceptable. Swearing isn't a prerequisite. I am not being condescending in my posts. And the only post I reported has been deleted by hq - a borderline comment maybe but I found it pretty offensive.

I am making the points I am making because I think they are important and worth discussion. I am also passionate about it.

I am making the points I am making because I think they are important and worth discussion. I am also passionate about it.

Yes I can see that. How do you feel about being challenged so much? Quite a few different posters have challenged you, some very experienced board members/adopters. Does it not make you rethink anything that you have posted? I believe you have been challenged on your sources, challenged on the fact you refuse to post certain links to research or other posters comments. Also challenged repeatedly on your interest in adoption. Like it or not it is relevant. Have you questioned yourself at all throughout the thread? As someone who doesn’t have first hand experience of adoption, I am wondering whether you will allow yourself to learn anything from the adopters and adoptees posting. If not, why not? Is theory everything? Are articles and opinions from people who have no direct experience everything? I often find that I find myself questioning my beliefs and attitudes. I believe this to be a good thing, because it forces you to rethink your opinions. It seems you don’t do that. If your interest in adoption is professional or research based, I would hope you would be more open.

boom I am surprised you are asking these questions, to be honest. Have you read the full thread beginning to end?

These are hot topics for some adopters because they are so closely connected with bio families.

Very little in the way of sources has been produced to back up arguments against anything i have said. Amongst the loud antagonistic voices there have been posters who have supported what I have said with links and personal experience - have you missed those?

If you want to challenge anything I have actually written (rather than my motivation or why I won't say my experience) I will be very interested and open minded, I can assure you. It is great to learn about other points of view as well as give opinions. Learning about other points of view doesn't necessarily mean agreeing though.

I think you missed my point brightsunshine. I was more than happy to have direct contact whilst my son was getting something out of it. He still could get something out of it, but as the birth parent is not reliable, I am no longer prepared to out my son through the anticipation, the expectation, followed by the crushing rejection of a no show

ted I don't think I missed the point - it sounded like it was really difficult and I am not surprised that and totally understand why you put on the brakes. When I said it is usually difficult I wasn't being at all critical of what you did, I probably would have done the same thing. Can I just say that I have read your other posts and it sounds as though your son is a trooper. I hope you don't mind me saying.

Excellent post Boom.

What a shame it seems to have gone right over someone’s head.

kristina not really, and it is rude to refer to another poster as "someone". You just have really strong views on this, and many subjects, but they are all just your views, subjective views. Just like mine.

Yes indeed they are my views.

But the difference is that mine are based on 50 years experience. It’s not a topic in which I have some vague, unspecified, theoretical interest.

And I don’t claim that because I am an expert in another field that I must be an expert in adoption.

And I don’t claim that my opinions are backed up by hard evidence and then refuse to provide that.

And I don’t say that my opinions apply to everyone at all times in every situation.

Kristina, I am sorry but your post is gaslighting. Go back and read my posts again and stop accusing me of saying things I haven't said.

moot and kristina the below is what I have actually said, not as an expert but just personal views. Tell me, which of the below do you actually agree/disagree with?

• a 2 year old will identify with the name they are being called day to day. Agree or disagree?

• there are widely differing views amongst adults about the significance of a name, and we know that some adoptees have been affected as they have told us, so if a name has to be changed it is better to err on the side of caution and give the child a lot of support about it, with explanations, over the years, just in case. Agree or disagree?

• panel will want adopters to show awareness of the impact of changing or not changing a name, during the child's childhood and adulthood. Agree or disagree?

• Form A58 is not clear enough about changing first name. Changing first name should be brought in line with rules about changing a child's name applying to all non adoption situations, so that there are checks and balances. Agree or disagree?

• It is not necessarily the case that children who are removed will have negative feelings about bio family. Agree or disagree?

• People broadly agree that names may need to be changed in situations of risk or where the name is inappropriate but beyond that there are differing opinions and different ways of handling things. Agree or disagree?

I’m not going to engage with you anymore Brightsunsshine, as I don’t think you are posting in good faith.

You have ignored or avoided many questions directed at you while demanding that we answer your questions. I don’t think that’s reasonable.

Very little in the way of sources has been produced to back up arguments against anything i have said. Amongst the loud antagonistic voices there have been posters who have supported what I have said with links and personal experience - have you missed those?

No I haven’t missed the few that back you up. I am looking at the majority of posters. The majority of posters have stated over and over again that they kept their child’s name because there was no threat or changed it because there was a threat. I have found no evidence of anybody saying they changed it just because they liked a different name. Earlier in the thread, you were challenged to produce evidence of the posters who had, according to you, said that and you refused. So I went back through the thread and could genuinely find no evidence of this. I was ready to quote someone else but I could find nobody. I could only find evidence of people changing a name because of the threat. Some posters said they disliked the name because it was spelt differently/very identifying or not a name a child would grow up with. Nobody said that was the sole reason to change a name though. More that the worst/disliked names also happened to be the most identifiable.

Very little has been provided by yourself in terms of evidence either. I think that is the point you are missing. You have not provided credible evidence and neither has anybody else. All we have are theories. Now this is where adopters and adoptees DO have more weight to their argument (whether they agree with you or not). They have DIRECT experience of the situation AND access to theories. If you only have theory to quote from then you ONLY have theory. I’m going to assume that you are theory based, from all the posts I have read. I apologise if that is not the case but you don’t wish to correct me so that is fine.

I totally agree that changing a name is a big deal. I totally agree it should never be done lightly. I totally agree that it could be negative for an adoptee, as a poster upthread mentioned. But I also believe that if adoptive parents assess the risks to their child then that is their right and they should be trusted. I kept my child’s name. It is common and not identifiable and, thankfully I like it. Is that ok? That I express an opinion on her name? If I had disliked it but there had been no threat, I would have kept it but maybe had a nickname that was very similar.

Lastly, “loud antagonistic voices”? Is that not a personal attack? Try to challenge the post and not the poster, thanks.

I’m done with this thread, I feel I have been as clear as I can but I also feel I’m banging my head against a brick wall.

You have ignored or avoided many questions directed at you while demanding that we answer your questions. I don’t think that’s reasonable.

Totally agree. Putting a list of questions out of the context they were originally written in is pointless, especially when other questions have been dismissed.

boom just one thing - I am not aware of any questions I haven't answered - other than in relation to my experience which I have said is personal. If you think I have left unanswered any other question let me know.

Italian believe me it was not in the best interest of those little girls to be separated. How can it be right not to tell a child she was adopted and thus removing the chance for her to trace her siblings? How that case was worked was indefensible. It was the social worker who made the decisions to withhold information. I worked as a social worker for 20 years but only with the adoption team through my role in fostering for 2 and believe me that was enough. It is not unusual for social workers to withhold information from all families from child protection through to adoption and it is truly appalling hence I am not a social worker anymore. The adoption team finished me off!

Evergreentree so sad.

I agree, it’s very sad. Not just for the children and families concerned.

But because the profession needs more people with integrity and compassion as well as the right knowledge and skills.

Yrs, indeed.

kristina You may disagree with me and that is fine, but what I have said is nothing to do with conspiracy or agenda. It has nothing to do with dictating or judging or saying anyone is wrong.

I think that a common theme running through this thread is whether or not it is a good thing to have more psychological input in relation to parenting and adoption. For anyone who like me thinks that more psychological input is a good idea, the issue is then the fact that it is difficult to access to decent professional help or get guidance. I think it would help with "hot topics" like direct contact and name changing. You may disagree and that is fine, but it is nothing to do with conspiracy or agenda. It has nothing to do with dictating or judging or saying anyone is wrong.

I think that any evidence I provide, any personal experience I tell you about, you will rubbish. Even though everything I have said on here is pretty mainstream and well known. I think you are doing this because you think that there is conspiracy or agenda or hidden or dubious motives. There aren't.

I said I was a specialist in a different area because (a) you and other posters had been telling me I was obviously working for CAMHs or a social worker and I was clarifying that my profession isn't related to mental health or child protection or adoption and (b) I was referring to the fact that as a specialist in a different area I thought that a professional giving their opinion in a professional capacity is more than just a random opinion, and i was referring to the psychologist quotes in this thread, not mine (obviously).

Trying to shut down discussion isn't doing any favours to adoptees or adopters who do want to hear other point of views. Nor is being so rude to posters that they do not feel they can post which has been said is a problem recently on other threads.

Sorry, brightsunshine, I think recognising that your opinion is just that, one person's opinion, and one who appears to not have inside knowledge of adoption, is not closing down debate at all.

FWIW, I think altering, adding, or even changing a name is a valuable part of claiming the child as your own. A child can have many names, birth parents named them Bob, their adoption application put Robert, they introduce themselves as Bert, but only dad calls them Bobling, and their best mate calls them R, for example. I agree that it's only in adoption we get peddled this 'BUT it's their IDENTITY' bollocks, every other parent is allowed to call their child Tigger because they're bouncy, but their sunday name is Persephone without anyone getting in a tizz.

Please, give our kids more credit, there is much much more to their identity than the 4- 6 letters that make up their names. Mine answer to 'Piglet' or similar most of the time, anyway.

Not to worry, thomas.

FWIW, I think altering, adding, or even changing a name is a valuable part of claiming the child as your own I understand your point - you are saying that you think it is an important part of claiming the child as your own and so changing the name even if there isn't risk is ok and understandable, I think? I understand your point, I think, but let me know if I got that wrong.