Niggling concerns about someone's adoption - do I do something or butt out?

[MadeleineBoo]

Namechanged and some details changed for obvious reasons. I can't decide if my concerns are legitimate or if it's not ideal but really not such a big issue. Essentially, I'd appreciate some perspective from adopters.

Situation is that someone I know has recently adopted a young boy. He's in year 3 and she's a single parent. The adoption hasn't been finalised (not sure what that's called) but he's been living with her since the start of May half term and started his new school after half term.

The mum is self-employed and works in an industry where the work isn't 9-5. I know (because she told me) that she lied to the adoption agency about how much time she was going to take off when the adoption went through as she wasn't planning on taking any time off at all and hasn't.

As well as her DS being in afterschool club most days, today she told me she's got a project for the whole of August and is desperately trying to find childcare/holiday clubs who can have him for the month.

I'm not an adoptive parent but I feel really uncomfortable about this. I have talked to her about it but she just says that she can't afford not to work.

Entirely possible I'm being a bit precious so would welcome opinions

I have no experience in this whatsoever. I don't think it's good she lied but as a parent I can identify with her situation of just having to work. Is it worth potentially making the adoption fall through for something that she would have to do if she had birthed the child herself?

The problem is that the whole point of taking time off is to give a good length of time to allow bonding and the child to settle.
The sw would have looked closely at her ability to take that time and still be able to support a child long term so yes i think it is concerning ! And the fact that she is prepared to lie is also a worry. What else is she capable of ? She certainly doesnt seem capable of putting the childs needs first !
But anyway i would expect post adoption sw to pick this up if they are doing their job right.
It is a difficult one but from the little info given she doesnt sound like adoptor material i am sorry to say!

That is also my understanding Flapjack. Everyone else I know who has adopted has taken a year's adoption leave.

Not sure if the SW will realise - they're very stretched here and have barely seen them since placement.

Having said that, I know they're concerned about her wanting to move him to a different school in September so maybe they'll keep a closer eye on things.

Ooh, that doesnt sound good for the boy. I think you should say something. If he has settled well, hopefully they will convince her to take time off to bond properly. Adoption is so hard for the kids. Not at first but after a few months they can start to react. The child will need her support.

I would be tempted to butt out.

It could be that she is struggling with PAD and needs to get back to work a bit. It could be that the child struggles with the long, unstructured holidays, and that it precipitates lots of dysregulated behaviour, so she is working hard with him to structure that time. It could be anything. I'm sure the social workers have a good idea, and the school can intervene if needed. Unless you know everything about this, and she would confide in you if it was PAD, or managing a traumatised child, unless there is no chance she is fobbing you off with an excuse as to why she's doing what she's doing, I'd butt out. it could be that the placement is in jeopardy, and she is doing this to keep going.

A disruption is potentially more harmful than childcare, if everything else is good enough.

It's not your job to decide if the placement is going ok, and I doubt you have enough real information. Were you one of her references? If you were, then perhaps that puts a different spin, but if you're just a school gate mum, then you are unlikely to know the half of it, so I'd keep out.

She will have had a financial assessment, where she will have had to prove she took some time off work.

Are you sure about the placement dates, and starting school dates etc? Often a child is placed and has some time off school all together.

I don't think it's fair to label an adopter as 'not adopter material' based on a half baked second hand story.

What are the child's needs? An 8 year old, newly placed, is going to be bloody hard work. If you are a friend, she will need support. And chocolate biscuits. She doesn't need anyone watching with a critical eye, she already has SWs for that.

Rosie that is why i said based on the little info given. I am a fc and adoptor and the whole point is that the childrens needs are paramount. It is about that little boy first and foremost and you are making even more far reaching assumptions based on that same bit of info. Madeleine is asking whether there is any cause for concern and personally i think there is because if she can bare faced lie and hide the truth from the sw then it does not bode well for the future of the placement imo. And it isnt a second hand story to the op who had it straight from the horses mouth !

I'm not assuming anything. I'm trying to say that there are, to adopters, good reasons why a newly placed 8 year old may need something different to what non-adopters would think. There are also good reasons why an adopter may not be 100% truthful with people on the periphery as to what those reasons are.

The children's needs are paramount. The adopter in this is under no obligation to detail the child's needs to OP, nor is she required to justify them. If she isn't meeting the child's needs, and the child is still LAC, I think it is the SW's job to deal with that, and not OP.

If OP is a non-adopter friend of an adopter, I recommend she buys her all the chocolate biscuits, and is a real friend, saying she'll help whenever needed. If not, then OP should certainly butt out. No chocolate biscuits, no say.

Well i dont know any adoptors or soc workers who would say it is in the childs interests to spend v little time with their newly placed adoptive child . And no sw would place a child in a home where the parent would go straight back to work with no leave whatsoever. In todays competitive adoption climate sw can pick and choose placements so i cant see how this would get past a matching panel if they knew the truth. And the adoptor didnt need to tell op anything and has volunteered the info herself. She is the one saying she has lied.
Anyway i dont know what your experience of modern adoption is but we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Flapjack- she is the one telling OP she lied. We don't know what she told SWs. We only know what she's told OP, and adopters don't always tell people the whole 'truth', and sometimes evasive answers are misinterpreted.

In this 'competitive' market for adopters, I therefore doubt she's as rubbish a parent as OP thinks. Perhaps she has an unusual skill, or other aspect of matching? The point is we don't know. We don't know why she is doing what she's doing, why this child is placed with her. SWs do. I'm betting OP doesn't.

We don't know enough to judge this adopter. And, as a general rule, I'd like to start a law that says that those peripherally associated with adopters always think not only twice, but one hundred times, before judging, and are obliged to provide biscuits. And do the laundry sometimes.

I think that if someone is concerned about whether a child's needs are being met then they are obliged to take it further, rosieandtim.

The child isn't being left at home with a bag of crisps, the mum is arranging perfectly acceptable childcare.

SWs will be in contact with school. The child has been placed what, two months, they'll be getting fortnightly visits in all likelihood. I doubt she is pulling the wool over SW's eyes, and neglecting the child.

Having a newly placed, traumatised eight year old can test even the best and most resilient parent. OP likely doesn't know the full story. People who do- SWs, school, etc- will be heavily involved.

If someone is concerned about neglect, then yes, they have to report it. Using after school club, and structuring the long unstructured hellish summer holidays with activities doesn't sound like neglect to me.

rosieandtim it may be that this parent needs more support and guidance. Neglect isn't just to do with appropriate food and childcare, it is also to do with meeting children's emotional needs.

rosie - I am absolutely sure about the times and dates. She was not very honest in the financial assessment either. It's very easy to fudge figures if you're self-employed.

Like I said, I have a number of friends who've adopted (this woman isn't a friend, she's a colleague) and they have approached it very differently. But I hope you're right.

So lo has been there 6-7 weeks and is already at school and after school clubs. The child needs to be bonding not only with new parent but also with their new home. I'm surprised they are even back in school this early on let alone at clubs/ summer childcare!
IME you reap what you sow and putting the time in with lo early on brings massive rewards for the child and family.
New house, new mum, new school, being looked after by strangers......?. this could really backfire.
Don't know what you should do about it but it's not a great start.
I don't doubt that parenting a traumatised 8 year old is tough. SW's and schools with the greatest respect don't 'live' adoption.
Neglect comes in many forms, lo IMO needs to be at home and new parent needs to accessing whatever support she needs and advocating for her child, no one else will.

Going to school that soon after placement is usual and crazy. Does the mum know that it's her decision, not social workers'? Often SWs will push for an earlier return to school than is actually advisable.

If you are certain she has lied to social services, then yes, I think you have to contact them. Lying in the financial assessment is more concerning that just returning to work earlier than originally stated, as there could be reasons, such as PAD or a sudden unexepected financial blip, or something, to justify a change. But an out and out lie on the finances would concern me. If you have the kind of role where you know her true circumstances, then I would report that dishonesty.

She must have found at least three referees that thought she was honest and reliable, though. The assessment process is robust, and there are enough waiting adopters that social workers must have thought she was a good plan for this little boy, for whatever reason. Are there additional needs?

If you have concerns that the child's needs aren't being met, you can pass that onto the relevant adoption and fostering team who can do whatever. If there are underlying issues that they're aware of, they'll simply note your concerns and continue with whatever plan is in place. If they aren't aware of wider issues they'll talk to mum as part of the usual post adoption support process, which means she can get appropriate support. It's not your job to know all the ins and outs, or to assess whether things are ok, that's what her social worker is for.

Good point, Jellycat.

I'd still hesitate to say this is neglect. If a child in foster care was being sent to school and after school clubs, then the word neglect wouldn't be used. It's not ideal, in all likelihood, but not neglect.

Foster carers have to have one parent at home full time rosie so this would not be acceptable in that situation either tbh.
I am a bit baffled that you are more concerned she has lied re finances than over how she intends to actually take care of the lad?
She doesnt even have concrete plans in place for school hols if she is desperately trying to find someone / anyone to have him . That poor kid doesnt even know where he is going to be next week by the sounds of it!
Also if she is pre adoption order as she obviously is then all babysitters or childcare must be approved by sw as basically she does not have full parental rights yet to make those decisions so is she keeping quiet about that as well?
As you rightly say rosie we do not have anywhere near the full facts to judge here but it seems to me that she is not prioritising her son and his needs which to me is a big concern at this stage.
You can report concerns anonymously and if sw are fully aware and have no issues with it then there is no harm done .

I'm a single adopter so I have every sympathy with the scary, hard, and financially tough times - but very broadly speaking I would agree that the 12 months of adoption leave is really important for starting to build trust and a bond. It might be too confronting for an 8 year old to have that 1:1 time all day and night, they might find it easier to have some familiarity like school (but when it's a new school and new people, that's going to be incredibly hard work for them too). Early days are HARD. Is there a way you might feel comfortable putting your colleague in touch with your other adopter friends, for a bit of real-world advice and support?

If you have serious concerns, you should contact their agency and speak to either their SW, or ask for the details of the IRO handling their case so you can send your concerns to feed into the regular independent reviews meetings.

I think the lying on the finances is easier to prove, and something the OP is more likely to actually know/have evidence for.

Everything else, the SW and the adopter may be fine with for good reason, depending on the needs of the child.

What could be a much worse option here for this child is adoption disruption. If it's a placement in jeopardy, then rather than neglect, this could be keeping it going. We just don't know. And as OP is a colleague, rather than friend, she probably knows very little. My colleagues know very little about the needs of my children.

I can really see your dilemma here OP. I guess the decision comes down to whether the care is safe vs whether it's not how you've seen other adopters parenting in the past (and not how you'd chose to do it!) its a tough judgement call to make.

I guess it sounds like your colleague isn't necessarily doing things 'by the book' and the fact information has been withheld from social care which sets alarm bells ringing but whether it's actually harmful is the question. I'm sure we all encounter lots of people (birth and adoptive parents) using different parenting techniques, some more effective than others and some you can see might be heading for disaster in later years but it's up to them to make those decisions and have to deal with the fall out.

It's a tough choice. With the information you've given it doesn't sound like there are any concrete safe guarding concerns and as someone else mentioned, the impact of disruption could be far more traumatic than the impact of the choices this parent is making. I'd imagine it's hard for you to hear them telling you things that are not how you understand adoption and forming attachments to work as I'm sure you're worried about the LO in the middle of all this and its impact on their future.

If this LO had been placed with his extended family it's very likely that social care would have provided a package of support that actually included full time child care out of school hours. I know it's a different situation but I guess things are often not perfect but as long as they are 'good enough' and not causing actual harm to the child it's a case of biting your tongue. Frustrating I know!

I am really surprised to read that, alltheusernames. It isn't so much a matter of leaving them to deal with the fallout, it is more to do with protecting a child from harm, and it is a judgement call as you say, but it is not the OP's to take, surely, and she is not proposing to take it, she is proposing to refer it on. You advise that she butts out?

I come across many people with parenting styles different to mine, including some which I think will cause problems for the child later on, without feeling the urge to contact SWs. However, this is early days in a placement where a child is being moved from pillar to post without, likely, feeling secure enough in anything to get help from an adult when they need it. A child of this age really needs to have someone they feel they can rely on, and that applies to children without traumatic backgrounds let alone a child who has just been placed for adoption. What OP has described sounds chaotic at best and surely if anytime is a good time to shine up those parenting skills and be pointed in the right direction of some guidance, it would be now? Or do you think I am being precious?

Can I just clarify also that you are saying it is ok to lie to professionals, whether SWs or other, about children in your care provided that it is hopefully not harmful in the long run?

...sorry...itchy trigger finger!

If op butts out then she is making the decision about whether the colleague is an appropriate carer for the child in the circumstances, whether disruption would be worse etc etc. If she contacts the adoption and fostering team with her concerns they are making that decision.

Surely they are better placed to do that?!