Niggling concerns about someone's adoption - do I do something or butt out?

[MadeleineBoo]

Namechanged and some details changed for obvious reasons. I can't decide if my concerns are legitimate or if it's not ideal but really not such a big issue. Essentially, I'd appreciate some perspective from adopters.

Situation is that someone I know has recently adopted a young boy. He's in year 3 and she's a single parent. The adoption hasn't been finalised (not sure what that's called) but he's been living with her since the start of May half term and started his new school after half term.

The mum is self-employed and works in an industry where the work isn't 9-5. I know (because she told me) that she lied to the adoption agency about how much time she was going to take off when the adoption went through as she wasn't planning on taking any time off at all and hasn't.

As well as her DS being in afterschool club most days, today she told me she's got a project for the whole of August and is desperately trying to find childcare/holiday clubs who can have him for the month.

I'm not an adoptive parent but I feel really uncomfortable about this. I have talked to her about it but she just says that she can't afford not to work.

Entirely possible I'm being a bit precious so would welcome opinions

I'm not sure where you got the idea I'm saying it's okay to lie to professionals. I just read my post again and I can't see any reference to that at all. Sadly having worked with kids for almost 20 years and ten of those being in safeguarding, if we separate the emotions from factual evidence here then I'm saying that if there is a genuine risk of harm to the child then I would advise a referral to children's services. If it is a case on less than ideal parenting then it's unlikely to be taken any further. If someone's unsure then i'd always err on the side of making a referral, it's better to be over cautious than under. However, thinking realistically if a child is getting 'good enough' care and there is no evidence of a risk of significant harm im not sure what taking this further would achieve. Over many years I've had to work with many many families where I've felt uncomfortable about parenting choices and had to leave children in houses where I know they aren't being nurtured and receiving the UPR they deserve because it's not a safeguarding risk. Now I work with adolescents there are many adoption cases where things haven't worked out as well as it could have. Often the early days of placement set the tone so, yes, I suspect OP's colleague is setting themselves up for a very turbulent time later on and a child could end up very unhappy if not utterly miserable and damaged and on the other hand they might not. However, right now I haven't heard any safeguarding risks. My observations are that this person has selfishly made a decision to adopt a child to perhaps meet her desire to be a parent (if adoption was truly altruistic there wouldn't be so many kids with disabilities and health needs we waiting for families) but without thinking of the impact on the child...short term gain for herself and the LO but long term pain for them both too but again not a safety issue. I only have the OP's perspective and don't have all the facts so am just working from the info we've got. Don't get me wrong...my heartstrings are well and truly tugged here for the poor lad.

I guess a huge assumption here is what the OP means when they ask if they should 'say something' unless I missed it further up the thread. Do they mean say something to the colleague or make a referral to social care? If it's saying something to the colleague I'd imagine that after the whole adoption process, training, prep groups, assessment etc it does seem like this parent is making the choice to disregard the advice given rather than it being that they just aren't aware of the issues faced by adopted children. If it's about a referral to social care I'd say by all means go for it but anticipate it might not get very far unless there's clear evidence of immediate risk. If this person is able to bluff her way through an adoption assessment then I'm sure they'd be able to bluff their way through a referral to safeguarding too but it's worth a shot.

Oh, I had thought I'd posted a half finished paragraph but it's vanished...the gist is that I don't think I advised either way in my initial reply, just laid about the facts to the OP about whether it's risk of significant harm or crappy, 'wilfully ignoring advice of professionals' parenting. I guess as conserve says it should probably be left to the professionals to decide if OP is feeling really uncomfortable about this. They are in the best position. Unfortunately 'niggles' don't tend to get very far but if OP does decide to refer they will know they've done what they can to help and have peace of mind. It's all about weighing up pros and cons. There's often two sides to a story where two polar opposites can both be true and accurate and it's a really tough judgement call.

Thanks all for your really considered posts. They have been hugely helpful. Alltheusernames - your analysis of my colleague's personality is eerily accurate.

Thinking about it some more, my adopter friends have been very anxious to do everything 'right', have done a lot of reading and taken SW advice on board whereas my colleague (and it how she is about pretty much everything) is a bit pig-headed and bends facts to fit her narrative.

But I totally take the point that her DS is not being neglected and if he weren't a LAC, I would think nothing of the way she's chosen to parent.

So I think I'm going to leave it - I know that her SW isn't happy about her wanting to move him to a different school in September so I'm hoping they will get more involved over the next few months and provide her with a bit more advice and support so she's making.

I really hope he turns out to be enormously resilient

Thought I'd pitch in, as my eldest was placed at the same age and time of year as the AC in question.

If she is really looking for childcare 9-5 Mon-Fri for 4 weeks in August that is worrying to me. Going back to school was important for my DC as school had been a stabilising factor, but that 6 weeks in the summer was really good for bonding. No way would my DC have been able to do holiday clubs etc. At least she would, but it would have been harmful.

Changing school is a bit more moot. If the AP has reason to believe it is better for the AC e.g. better pastoral, that is one thing, but yet another change (assuming has moved schools for the placement) doesn't sound great.

It is the lying to the SWs that I don't like. It smacks as 'she knows best', and won't listen to professional advice.

All very tricky.

You can't say 'if wasn't LAC'. Because an 8 year old will have had 8 whole years to build up a strong bond, and thus probably be perfectly capable of enjoying holiday clubs. This child will have had 6-8 weeks. So it is more like saying would you put an 8wk old into full time nursery? Only worse, because this child will also have had disruption in main carers too.

OP I'd report what you have been told and leave the relevant authorities to decide how to proceed.

I agree OP this doesn't't sound good and she may need some help.

Just to be pedantic I also used to be a nursery nurse as my first ever 'proper job' and we took babies from 8 weeks. They were dropped off at 7.45 am and picked up again at 6. They had three meals a day with us (once they were on solids of course!) and often came in in the same nappy we'd sent them home in. I used to make me very sad but again it wasn't a safe guarding issue. Just really sad for the poor babies.

Exactly under the name of sanders...the lying raises suspicion as it makes you wonder what else they're hiding or weren't truthful about. I feel really sad for the poor kid. I remember holiday clubs being daunting as a securely attached child with very kind loving affectionate parents who also had to work to pay the bills so I can only imagine what this kid is experiencing when he's being shipped all over the place with no secure attachment yet.

OP I am going to reiterate what Sanders has said in relation to comparing to a family where the child isn't adopted. As Sanders said that parent and child will have built a relationship over many years, and there will also be other similarities and learned behaviour and so on so problems would be more easily picked up from the child's behaviour. For that 8 year old to be left for hours with other people is a different situation. Similarly, possibly, if he were placed with extended family.

He may end up resilient. He may also end up lonely and unable to form relationships for his entire adult life.

On the other hand, there may be positives about the relationship and the facts which we aren't aware of, which the SWs have considered.

alltheusernames we know enough now about how things turn out after a poor start, and what consequences there are for young lives, which makes it more factual than emotional, or should do! But in relation to lying, I thought that doctors/teachers for example would see any withholding of info/lying as a serious issue and quite possibly that in itself a safeguarding concern, is that not right in your view?

timeswingedchariot good post.

OP, please do not assume social workers will pick up on this. If she is lying they may not know.

It's easy to say don't judge but children taken into care have already been taken from one family situation because it was not judged good enough. Very few children are relinquished, and that's usually babies I think.

The point is this child needs stability now, he"s not yet had the adoption finalised and already his mum is putting his well being at risk.

It all seems very callous, IMHO.

Maybe she does have post adoption depression, in which case she needs help.

I have a boy going into year 3 next academic year. He joined out family by adoption I. 2014.

After over three years together I am pretty sure he would not cope well with 9-5 care.

In my personal opinion I agree that it is a huge concern. In my experience it's not necessarily treated as such. The problem with SW is that it's all completely subjective really. There are guidelines of course but these can be 'massaged' to fit and really depends on the thresholds of the SW in question (or the culture of the team that their manager leads by example) and what their personal beliefs/opinions are/day of the week/side of bed they got out of. Even reporting safety concerns as a professional I've found very mixed responses to situations that would make your hair curl (one that sticks in my mind is calling the out of hours team as I was doing weekend welfare checks as a lowly family support worker on a newborn who had just been discharged from hospital due to dehydration, both parents were heavy drug users. I returned several times through the day but no answer despite them clearly being home. When I called to report it I was asked by the EDT SW what I expected her to do about it?!)

Alltheusernamesaretaken321 having reported it though, you do know you did what you could.

Also, I do want to reiterate that I agree with everything everyone's saying...this is very concerning; that OP's colleague has admitted to lying to professionals AND appears to be go against all that we know is good for LAC or adopted kids to help them thrive and could be very damaging for the LO. Also, I'm approaching this from a safeguarding perspective and have never worked on an adoption team so it could be treated very differently. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it the OP does decide to take this further then they might need to be prepared that it might not get much of a response. As someone further up the thread says, it's not our decision to make so I guess all the OP can do is digest all the information here, see how it fits with the information she has about the colleague and the child and decide whether to take it further.

I think there's s world of difference in reporting something as a safeguarding concern in relation to a difference in parenting style with an otherwise ok family set up and raising a concern about the early days of an adoptive placement. In the first instance, no sw aren't going to be that interested. I would hope however the placement team would be very interested in concerns about the wellbeing of a looked after child.

That's a good point Italiangreyhound

I may get shouted down here but legally this child i snot her child, he has (correct me if wrong) the same status as a foster child.

If you heard a foster child was not being looked after properly, would anyone feel OK about ignoring it or saying it was not so much of an issue?

These kids are very vulnerable. If he is Year 3 he must be 7 or 8, so I recognize that this may seem like his last chance to be adopted, Potentially so maybe this woman is his best option at a family life. Again, some may disagree with me.

I think the social workers are failing him by not knowing this but if she is lying then how can they find things out.

I did not take a full year off. I took 11 months off. When ds went to school full time I chose to go back to work, as I am part time I was still there to drop at school and collect so for him the situation was not really any different to me being at home all day.

So I am not saying it always has to be exactly one year, I know that personal situations will vary.But this mum does not seem to understand, this is her chance to bond and attach and she is squandering it. It just makes me very cross and upset. It's OK to make mistakes, and as parents we all do it! But lots of lying and doing what is expressly advised against, is just wrong.

Sorry, "the situation was not really any different to him of me being at home all day.

I agree italian and stand by my original conclusions. She is not really getting it and that it is concerning and as i have previously said all babysitters , childminders etc need to be approved by sw as he is not legally her child yet!
I am a fc and adoptor and this is riinging alarm bells for me and there is nothing to lose by reporting concerns to the right people.
I am not saying she is capable of deliberate abuse but lets not forget that rogue people have become fc , teachers , childminders etc and gone on to harm kids in their care so i would err on the side of caution .

I am a foster carer this needs reporting this little boys needs are not being met. How is he ever going to be securely attached if he's shipped off all over.. as for those who have commented would you report this if he was not adopted well if he hadn't been adopted an attachment would have grown with mother by now so this would be an issue but not such a big issue.

I am concerned by this and feel you need to spk to your friend or sw. Hopefully social services may offer her some financial support to support this adoption from breaking down

Another thing an adoption breakdown as devastating as that would be for this little lad might be better at this stage rather than many years of indifference and neglect emotionally imo!
Op what is she like with him? Does she talk of him with enthusiasm and affection etc. It would be helpful to know a bit more on that score!

That's another good point Flapjack, there's probably a much bigger picture here in terms of how they get on and relate to each other as well. I'm surprised this hasn't been picked up by either the LOs social worker and/or parents SW during the first 6 weeks.

Also really good points about him being a looked after child. As I'd said before, I was thinking from a safeguarding perspective rather than adoption perspective.

OP how are you doing? How are you feeling now?

From the child's perspective don't think most would give a hoot as against permanency , We have given permanency too 13 children.
Some runaways seeking a home, sleeping in the telephone box opposite
In the porch, gardens shed , and runaway's pleading too be rescued and picked up.
Welcome too the real world !!

The consensus of opinion really seems to be that I should say/do something but really it is all just brief conversations at the moment. I think I'm going to have another chat with her - I've not actually met him yet so I might see if we can meet up next week when school finishes and see what she's planning for August.

I've just found an email from her at the end of the first week complaining that it's very hard for her to get any work done because he was having meltdowns every evening. She obviously cares about his distress but I think she's just spreading herself too thinly.

I don't know who I'd report it to - I assume the county adoption team?

"I've just found an email from her at the end of the first week complaining that it's very hard for her to get any work done because he was having meltdowns every evening. She obviously cares about his distress but I think she's just spreading herself too thinly."

This is why you need time off to be there for the child.

I would report to social services adoption team, it may have been a voluntary agency, if you know which one you could report to them but ultimately social services adoption services I think.

Good luck.

Not unusual for a child too be unsettled at this early stage, has too cope with separation and loss issues , children learn too cope with it in different way's, Our latest little one age 3 has multiple development delay and SEN issues. Have found that 3 hrs a day in nursery is a god send. Took too it from day one and loves inclusion with others.
All will be different as will their new family's, after over 40 years as both a FC and AP , and seen over 50 children through too adoption find its best too be none judgemental too all concerned for things too work . Best too be supportive in all situations if you can.