Nightmare with daughter at school

[HammerToFall]

I'm having a nightmare with dd 8 at school in year fourSo as not to drip feed she is adopted, was placed with us at 12 months and went straight into foster care from birth. She also is working at a year 2 level, there is a strong history of learning difficulties in the birth family background.

Dd has always been a well liked happy child at school but since she went back in September things have got pretty bad.

Her behaviour at school is unacceptable. She refuses to even look at her work, she is disruptive and rude. She starts fights with other children in the class and does things like lie on the floor in the middle of the classroom and refuse to move or engage with any member of staff. She did a runner of the school bus on a swimming trip a couple of weeks ago and they couldn't find her for fifteen minutes.

School are now threatening inclusive exclusion and then if that doesn't work straight forward exclusion. I'm so worried about her future and where this is going to go.

We have tried talking to her obviously and all we get is there's no problem and she doesn't know why she does it. School have tried and she just refuses to even look at the teacher never mind speak.

How can we get to the bottom of this if she won't open up?

Matimeo I thibk this might be the difference between reactive attachment disorder (rad) amd more generally attachment issues. Their is a good article here which does show some differences.
www.helpguide.org/articles/secure-attachment/attachment-issues-and-reactive-attachment-disorders.htm

Whereas rad is very specific, moe "general" attachment issues can be caused by "simply" moving from one caregiver to another. I also think the majority of adopted chikdren/adults do differ to some degree from this. It's also not down to a poor foster carer. My ds was moved at 12 weeks to a wonderful fc who he was with for 17 months. He still has attachment issues. General attachment issues are not as specific but are still definetly there.

Hideous typos sorry. Main illegible part is: "do differ from this" I meant do suffer from this.

YY, scar. Our DD's FC were wonderful - far more experience at parenting that DH and I will ever have. It's not about the quality of the care, it's about the fact that in 14 months DD experienced two traumatic changes of care giver, and I don't believe she will ever truly get over that.

I would also support that attachment / trauma behaviours are very common. Being removed birth and low numbers of foster care moves don't remove the risks.Bruce perry and Dan Hughes and Louise bomber would be the best sources of information.
Matimeo, while the issues may never be conclusively pinpointed as adoption related, it's important that we look through an adoption lens as the responses will need to be tempered through that (e.g. not using exclusion as a sanction).

The trouble with early trauma is that it continues to affect the way children are able to cope with stress for a very long time. So it may be that the change in teacher or work expectations has caused dd stress that other children might be able to cope with, but because of her difficult start in life, she is reverting to her fight or flight mode and cannot deal with it. Nadine Burke Harris explains this really well if you look her up on YouTube. This behaviour does seem extreme and out of the realms of normal childhood behaviour, so I would suspect that it is trauma (rather than adoption) related.

We had the reintegration meeting yesterday. The head was very good and spoke to dd about what to do if she started feeling angry. They gave her a card that she could hold up and leave the classroom any time she wants and dd seemed happy to back in to school.

Within two hours I got a phone call to go into school. Dd had totally trashed the classroom, I mean totally. I have taken pictures of the classroom so I can show gp etc the extent of the damage.

Dd was in total distress when I got there she had locked herself in a cupboard and was in total meltdown.

As it stands at the minute she isn't in school, they have said to me do what you think is best! I can't see the point in taking her back in as she will just do it again. We went to the gp last night who is referring her to camhs and I have chased up the adoption support worker who said I am on the list for a referral!

I don't know where to go or what to do, the meltdown subsided and then started again In Full force last night. She raged for about four hours until I could eventually calm her down. It was awful, and ds (10) was really distressed by the whole thing, we didn't get to bed until gone midnight.

These are couple of pictures of the classroom when I picked up her. As you can it's really extreme and I just don't know what to do anymore

Hammer very sorry this has happened but stay strong. You knew the reintegration without anything being resolved was not a good idea so that means your instincts are good.

In your shoes I would work at:
Making a list of anything you think is relevant to this
Making your dd's time at home as strress free and calm as you can, get professional advice, perhaps from virtual school (for adopted children) on what to do with her time while she is home
Talk to everyone who MIGHT be able to help GP, post adoption etc
Take or send those photos to post adoption person and ask how bad it needs to be for dd to off the waiting list and actually get action.

M y opinion is that rather than being nasty/pushy with officials who may dig in heals and make you wait if they have 'a process/procedure'; it might be better to just be a pest calling a lot, whatever, so eventually you get moved/reffered etc. The squeeky wheel gets the oil kind of thing!

Please do ask adoption support if theraplay would help and how to access it if it would.

Very sorry about your son, if he is 10 is he at same school and 2 years above dd?

Sadly, I think he now needs some support too so I would maybe ask your dp, if you have one, to really help there (maybe take son out for dessert/bike ride etc to give him some attention, respite from atmosphere, tensions, let him talk etc, because I woukd imagine a lot of this is falling on your shoulders.

I hope talking to us helps in some small way and keep doing it if it helps.

I definitely am leaning towards this being adoption related. I did I'm wondering with her last night after an almighty violent meltdown. When I said I'm wondering if you have some sad feelings about being adopted, she got very upset and said she was angry that she wasn't in my tummy. She also said she gets very angry when she falls out with her friends but then wouldn't elaborate. I al wondering if the school work was making her mad, she said it makes her sad that all her friends can do it and she can't. I don't know but I'm guessing she feels very insecure, especially if she falls out with friends and then the desire to get home to me just takes over. The worry is that the more and more she has done this, the more and more the girls don't want to be her friend as they must be scared when she does this in class, plus the more time she has off the further behind she will get. It's a viscous circle.

I'm going to ring the young minds helpline today and see if I get anywhere with that. I feel that the school and post adoption are letting her down. We can't just be stuck in a waiting list for an assessment, things are escalating daily and I'm scared what's going to happen.

I definitely am leaning towards this being adoption related. I did I'm wondering with her last night after an almighty violent meltdown. When I said I'm wondering if you have some sad feelings about being adopted, she got very upset and said she was angry that she wasn't in my tummy. She also said she gets very angry when she falls out with her friends but then wouldn't elaborate. I al wondering if the school work was making her mad, she said it makes her sad that all her friends can do it and she can't. I don't know but I'm guessing she feels very insecure, especially if she falls out with friends and then the desire to get home to me just takes over. The worry is that the more and more she has done this, the more and more the girls don't want to be her friend as they must be scared when she does this in class, plus the more time she has off the further behind she will get. It's a viscous circle.

I'm going to ring the young minds helpline today and see if I get anywhere with that. I feel that the school and post adoption are letting her down. We can't just be stuck in a waiting list for an assessment, things are escalating daily and I'm scared what's going to happen.

That is the work of a terrified out of control child. We have had the same - whole water tables over turned, displays ripped etc. It really is their fight or flight kicking in.
Are you working? Having never been a fan of it, I would now home school if I could. I don't think ds is able to learn at the moment when school is so stressful for him. If you don't want to do this, could you arrange (when she does go back or to another school) to be at school a bit, hearing readers etc. Just being around.
I also wonder whether this new teacher just isn't up to it. Maybe they've been doing family tree introduce yourself type work. Or maybe she has a lot of reward/shame chart systems. Maybe dd is sent to work outside if she is at a lower ability and this has triggered something. Or maybe it is just something buried a lot deeper. It does sound like she will struggle to return here though, she must feel so ashamed and embarrassed.
I would also be looking at an assessment for an EHCP. If she has learning difficulties and emotional and behavioural difficulties, she may need one. Ds is now in a school not terribly local, but he does get a minibus there and back so it is ok. They have not once called me to come and get him as his behaviour is all part of his special needs and they just deal with it (yes, even the table and chair throwing, biting teachers etc). This is slowly helping him see that his behaviour will not get him sent away and he is slowly improving (only 2 incidents yesterday yay).
Do also consider her emotional age. I reckon ds is about 18months emotionally. Duh, no wonder school is tough for him. Does the school take this into account and deal with her appropriately? If emotionally she is about 3, chucking tables around isn't so shocking and doesn't mean she'll do it forever.
As for post adoption support...... it's just an oxymoron here unfortunately.

It does really help to talk, thanks for listening. I'm wondering if one might be the time to look at getting an EHCP. I don't really know much about it but I think dds needs need to be documented somewhere so school (whichever school she ends up at) have to take some responsibility. Does anyone know how you go about getting this? I get the distance feeling school aren't going to help much so I'm very much on my own with this.

I do have a DH and he's very supportive, unfortunately he works away a lot, I don't work thank god so I can be here for dd as much as she needs me.

I have tried to get through to any department of the education authority to find out where we stand legally as at present dd is just not at school. However they NEVER answer the phone and just don't seem to respond to messages or emails.

I emailed the VSH last week, but as yet have had no reply and he never answers the phone either. Maybe time to get my local councillor involved?

You need the situation at school to be clarified. Is she on another fixed term exclusion? Or off sick? You need to know as the local authority have a duty to provide an education for her. Do get back to school about this and ask them to contact the la for advice.
For an EHCP, it is worth discussing with the SENCO. if the school can apply for it asap, it will be the easiest route as they need to show that they are giving her additional support but it is not enough. With ds, I applied myself following advice from the IPSEA website and using their pro forma letter. The school was then instructed to hold a multi agency meeting and provide assessments by a certain date. The EHCP names a school that your child should attend so if you aren sure that this school is going to work for her, you should start to look around.
But I think a meeting at the school is the first step. You need head and Senco and you need to know:
-What is the status of dd at the moment?

• How are they going to ensure her education is continued if on a fixed term exclusion, and how are they planning to support/reintegrate if not.
• can she be on reduced timetable/have you in to support for now?
• have slt/senco observed in class to see what is happening?
• what support are they able to offer in the long term? Can they apply for EHCP for dd?

Good luck, now is the time to gird your loins and really be that champion that dd needs to help her process everything that is happening for her right now.

Oh hammer I'm so sorry you are all going through this. It must be absolutely horrendous. I have PMd you with an anecdotal suggestion as to a possible way to access support but the previous posters have given excellent suggestions.

I wish I could do something practical to help, this must be incredibly hard for all of you. I echo what others have said we are here 'virtually' for you if it helps. Stay strong, keep pestering, carry on being the amazing mum you are being and the advocate your daughter needs. I really hope you are able to get the support you need very very soon

Oh what a time you and your DD are having! I agree with the PPs - something is scaring her and sending her right back into very primal fear. It could be the feeling of rejection/abandonment triggered if her friends push her away, it could be a topic they're doing in school such as family histories, it could be the internal shame triggered by feeling she can't do something, it really could be anything (but I am at least glad the school is working with you on it). I think you have it right on the button, that whatever it is has deeply scared her about being separated from you and she is in a panic to be reunited with you no matter how. Do take a moment to remember this means you have successfully built a strong bond there, she trusts you to be her safe place, and even in dire times, she knows you will protect her. That is an amazing thing, especially for a very scared child.

I too would take a break, keep her at home with you if you can for a bit, give her a megaton of nurture (and your DS too), give all of you a chance to breathe and see if you can figure out any triggers. If you think she needs an EHCP, either the school or the post-adoption support SW should help you, but if they don't, there are some wise and generous people on the SN boards who can help. I gather there are templates of forms and standard letters available from Ipsea and SOSSen if you need them.

And if you need to feel not alone in this, and have a small smile, have a read of Sally Donovan's blog, or Hannah Meadows.

Rather, I was about to suggest Sally Donovans blog too. Great minds etc etc! She talks eloquently about her son's "red brain" moments where he loses all control and lashes out.
I did a theraplay course and they talked about seeing these violent outbursts as something a toddler would do - just with an unfortunate added strength and size. But the blind instinct and inability to regulate is the same as a toddlers behaviour - and we would never punish a toddler for a tantrum or try and manage them by exclusionary practices.

OP, have you requested any support from post adoption support via the ASF?

Hammer I'm so sorry this has happened. You had a feeling it would (so did I). She is in crisis and can't go back at the moment.

My suspicion is that they will have coded this C for today (authorised absence). They can't assure her safety or that of anyone else.

I would recommend phoning her in ill each day this week and taking her to the GP. You could also ask for support from Parent Partnership - they are good.

Feel very sad for you both.

Thanks all. She is being marked down at authorised absence at present until we decide what to do.

I took her to the GP who has referred to CAMHS but in our area they don't deal with attachment issues so I have a feeling they will reject the referral.

A referral has been made to the post adoption support team, and I have today contacted the LEA regarding an EHCP.

I have emailed the school some literature. Learning together and some other local authorities policies on adoption and education (our LA doesn't have one!!)

I have contacted the VSH but he informs me he can only intervene on behalf of current LAC not previous LAC/adopted.

I guess the question is are they are willing and able to work to dds needs. They want me to go in on Friday for a meeting to discuss the situation. Things drastically need to change and an understanding of attachment gained or it's looking very doubtful she can go back.

In addition to her attachment needs, does she have any signs of ASD? I ask because ASD in girls can present quite differently to boys. Girls are also better at holding it together until they just can't any more. I taught a (not adopted) girl who had always been a bit quirky, struggled a bit with friendships and learning but was ok. Then suddenly at some point in key stage 2 overnight she just had a break down. She became a school refuser and it took a few months to get her back in. Her referral to camhs came out with an autism diagnosis. Looking back, the signs were there but just not obvious at the time. Just another thought as you try and unpick what is going on for your poor dd.

I haven't spotted any slkk. Ds has aspergers and she doesn't present like him at all. Now she's at home she's absolutely fine, back to her usual lovely self.

It is definitely school that is the trigger, I just don't know what to do about it, I can keep her at home with me for now but she can't just never go to school. I feel like I'm sinking, for the first time in my life I just dint know what to do, I haven't got a plan and I can't see how to improve things.

Ok so just take this as a break and don't even think about her going back for now. It is half term in a week so keep her home til then at least. That gives you 2 1/2 weeks attachment building bonding time. Then aim to meet with school and come up with a plan together. Dd may open up to you in the next few weeks once she knows that school won't be happening for a while. I do feel for you. I wish I could lock the doors and never send ds to school again but we can't and it's ok. And maybe good that she's expressing herself now and not saving it all for a much messier explosion when she's 16 (this is what I keep telling myself). There is also a great theraputic parenting group on facebook run by sarah naish. I've had so much advice abd support from there. Chin up, enjoy connecting with dd and keep talking to us x

the situation is getting worse and the trashing and rages have started at home. I have today arranged some private therapy with an accredited adoption therapist. The first appointment is next Tuesday.

Oh Hammer I'm sorry about this. Well done for sorting some therapy so quickly. Do be prepared for it to get worse before it gets better. What was the trigger today?

And do look at that therapeutic parenting group. If nothing else, it puts your problems into perspective and really does give some practical ideas.

Good luck for Tuesday. Do keep your receipts for private payments. You are doing loads of good things. You are trying so hard for her. you are a mum on a million. PLEASE get some small respite for you when you can. Make sure you do not forget about proper food and sleep for yourself.