The saga continues - help and advice needed please!

[YouAreMyRain]

My DD 1 (age 8) has recently been making allegations against various adults. These are quite far fetched and I'm not sure if she believes these allegations or if she actually knows truth from fiction as she lies constantly. Most of these allegations are about my partner or her dad's partner (we are separated/divorcing) as she wants us to get back together. She is (finally) under CAMHS having psychotherapy after a difficult few years. (Bit of background, she has attachment difficulties, high anxiety, emotional and behavioural issues, history of self harming and attempted suicide, can't find my previous threads but they are on here somewhere)

Last week I took her to A&E as I was concerned about a non- blanching rash that she had. While we were there, with the doctor, she repeated some of these allegations and they made a safeguarding referral because the dr thought that the rash could have been caused by one of her allegations.

We were there for 11hrs (all he obs were fine and there were no medical concerns) until a senior paediatric consultant said the rash was totally not linked to any allegations and there were no safeguarding concerns and they let us go. He said he had contacted the safeguarding team and told them there were no concerns and basically stopped the referral.

The next day, we had a visit from a social worker. He said that normally he would have police officers with him but they were unavailable. He asked me to sign an agreement that my partner would not see any of the children (two adopted and one birth child with DP) until the police investigation was completed. I refused and said that I didn't think my DP was a risk, that this would unsettle DD1 more etc as we had plans to go away and that I would agree to no unsupervised contact between DP and the children. If I break this agreement, they will start care proceedings against all three children. The social worker had not seen the hospital discharge letter saying that there were no safeguarding concerns and had not spoken to CAMHS.

The SW agreed to my suggestion of allowing only supervised contact and let us go away. I have been in contact with him and they are holding off interviewing DD1 until they have spoken to CAMHS and the school etc next week.

So, next week, my fragile, anxious DD with mental health issues, a phobia of the police, a questionable grasp of reality (she thinks she is bad and they will put her in jail etc) and fear of strangers is going to be interviewed by three strangers, two of whom will be police officers. I have asked and although they will be in plain clothes, they will have to identify themselves as police to her.

I am really worried about how she will cope with the experience and wether it will unsettle her and make things worse. Also, if she knows that her allegations have caused all this drama, (she loved being in hospital getting her obs done etc) that rewards her with attention and power which is not a positive thing for her and she may go on to make lots more allegations. She will need to be interviewed without me present so I have asked if her psychotherapist or a friendly teacher can be there to support her.

I am also worried about what happens if she repeats these allegations to the police and they believe her. Will they try and charge my DP? He is so supportive and I'm not sure how I will cope if he's not allowed to be with the children. Will they start care proceedings against all three children?

My DD is such a complex little girl and it's been such hard work trying to parent her so far, I am going through hell with this latest mess.

I am sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I am really stressed out.

[MerryInthechelseahotel]

Just somebody stupid asking people to vote for her daughter on a beauty competition!

Thinking of you If you were near me I would offer to help you.

[KristinaM]

You really need some specialist input from professional with experience in adoption issues and attachemt disorder. . General psychotherapy doesn't work well with AD kids, as it's based on the assumption that the child will develop a trusting relathioship with the therapist which can be transferred to the parent . And that's the basic problem of Ad kids -they can't trust anyone else.


What you are getting in the way of input is too little too late . You need to speak to a specialist agency . Please phone the post adoption center here .

She needs intensive therapeutic input and you need specialist support in how to deal with her. You may also need specialist respite services. You will have to fight for this .

Yes it will cost your LA tens of thousands of pounds. But the alternative is to remove your DD into a specialist residential placement at the cost of hundreds of thousands per year . Trust me, they will not be able to place in in FC if she is making allegations, no FC will touch her with an barge pole. I'm sorry , I know that's sounds harsh, but it's the truth.


YOU are the only hope for your DD to ever have a family life. You are part the solution, not the problem.i hope SS see that soon . This child has been let down by her birth family and by the care system. She hasn't been let down by you. Please hold onto that .

At some point You will have to stop pleading with them ( mentally if not literally ) not to remove your child and to discuss with them what support they need to offer to ensure that this placement doesn't break down permanently. This isn't the right time to have this discussion with them, you will know when it is.

[KristinaM]

Two others things -did you contact adoption uk?

Try not to worry about how Dd will cope with the police interview . It's will be a female officer, not in uniform , probably from a woemn and child unit or similar. They are usually very good -IME police are much more switched on to troubled kids that SS or therapists , they usually "get it " very quickly .

Many kids with AD love the attention of such situations and are not upset at all by the experience . Whereas you and I woudl be in pieces

[KristinaM]

How are things OP?

[YouAreMyRain]

Finally found out that the police are dropping it. Huge relief. Thanks for all the support. I am totally exhausted.

I really think that DD may have autism which is hard to pick apart from the attachment issues. I have begun to discuss this with her school and Camhs who are seriously considering it.

[KristinaM]

That's great news , what a relief for you all.

I hope that this enables you to get some extra help , please consider getting some specialist post adoption assessment of her needs, once things have settled down a little

[YouAreMyRain]

I am going to push for a full psychiatric assessment. I'm not sure of she believes the allegation actually happened or not. Her behaviour has been very extreme/manic over the last few days,

[Lilka]

I'm so glad to hear Police are dropping it Rain, thank goodness. Are social services still investigating?

Pushing for a full assessment is a very good idea

[allthingswillpass]

Good news OP.
In fact great news! I hope you get the support from PAS that your family needs and deserves.

[YouAreMyRain]

SS wanted to drop it but had to wait on the police decision.

[YouAreMyRain]

Thank god for my lovely DP. He has been amazing, a lesser man would have run a mile. I love him so much.

[Kewcumber]

Yay for DP!

I'm not sure if you think anything much about "the saga" is good but you must be so releived that action is being dropped. I really hope you can use it as a prompt to get more support for your DD.

[YouAreMyRain]

Now I have other parents from school offering me "support" because DD has been repeating the allegation at school and her classmates have been telling their families etc

Wtf do I say? Most of them don't even know she's adopted never mind under Camhs. I want to tell them that she is a severely disturbed child who doesn't know truth from fiction in order to protect my lovely DP from the "no smoke without fire" brigade but obviously I have to protect her too. If I tell the parents it's not true, they will tell her classmates it's not true and they will call her a liar etc.

[Kewcumber]

My feeling is that you just have to smile nicely and say "so kind, thank you but the professionals have the support covered"

I don't see how you can say anymore without betraying her confidence (not quite the right phrasing but you probably know what I mean)

Or possibly "Thank you its a lot more complicated and X needs professional support but its kind of you to think of us"

[KristinaM]

Do the school know of the recent events? If not, I'm afraid you need to speak to the HT today or Tuesday at the latest . It's only a matter of time before a child or another parent mentions this to the school and they have a statutory duty to report it to SS.

You can't stop them reporting it, but you can direct them to the person at SS who is already dealing with DD, rather than the duty officer or out of hours team .

This is the big problem with children who make false allegations - nearly everyone they tell HAS to report it, and so each time the systems starts to roll again and another investigation takes place.

I'd also speak to her therapist /counsellor from CAHMs as a matter of urgency .

When other parents tell you, you need to say

" thank you for telling me, I appreciate your concern. I'm afraid DD is a rather troubled little girl at the moment, the school know about these comments and she's getting some professional help to help her deal with her issues "

" I'm sorry, I'm sure you understand why I can't say more. I'm sorry if you're child found it upsetting to hear these things, I hope you will be able to reassure them so they don't worry about DD"

You don't have to say she's adopted unless you want to.but you might feel you have to. It's a shame you have so carefully protected her right to confidentiality so far. Although I suspect D will tell everyone soon.

I'm afraid she is learning the terrible lesson that saying these things gets you lots of attention from adults in a way almost nothing else does . It's more addictive than cocaine

Please phone the PAC, I linked in an earlier post. Your DD needs expert help now if she's to stay in your family .

I'm so very sorry, this is awful for you all

[KristinaM]

Oops x posted with Kew . Must refresh before posting

[Lilka]

I'm sorry Rain. I (personally) think ignoring them, change the subject sharpish if ever they broach it, and don't tell them anything, is the best approach. Being the subject of gossip and nasty stuff at that, is not nice, I've been there But protecting your DD is paramount. Saying it's not true is not necessarily going to be believed. The 'no smoke without fire' brigade, are also unlikely to believe a child would make something like this up - they don't understand the kind of issues your DD has. Also, yes, telling them that it's not true, if they believe it, is going to wind up with your DD being stigmatised.

Nosy buggers, by the way No sense of 'appropriateness'

Yay for your DP too, by the way! I'm so glad you have him through this.

[Lilka]

ah, more x-posting, sorry

I agree with Kristina that school (a few select people) need to be aware, to avoid the same things being reported to SS again.

[KristinaM]

I think the school have to report each time Lilka , they don't have an option. AFAIK Every agency ( bar one) has to report any allegation of abuse.

They can't not report it because even though it was judged to be a false allegation last time, it might be true this time . ( I'm not saying I think it's true, OP, just that's how the system works )

It's a bloody nightmare, trying to keep children safe from abuse at the same time as protecting innocent parents and children from false allegations and their consequences.

Hope you are getting some Specialist help OP

[Lilka]

I was thinking of exactly the same allegation that had been investigated before (that happened at the same date/time/place etc), if her DD was repeating that, but of course you're right Kristina

It is a nightmare. Most children don't allege untrue things and so people are loathe to think that ANY younger child would do that, but the children who have the psychological issues that mean they DO make false allegations, are usually also the same children who are really vulnerable to actually being abused

[YouAreMyRain]

Thanks everyone, food for thought.
Spoke to Camhs again today and the school. School are great (it helps that the HT has a very disturbed, adopted DN so is very understanding - I spent an hr sobbing and drinking tea in her office with her last week) and fully aware of DDs issues.

[YouAreMyRain]

Well, the rumour mill has obviously been busy. I have been totally shunned and avoided in the play ground this morning.

[Kewcumber]

Hopefully it will wear off Rain, I can imagine that many people will feel awkward about knowing what to say. It doesn't mean that people are shunning you but avoidance is much easier than being brave and speaking to people.

I'm so sorry that this is happening.

[Lilka]

I'm sorry

Kew's right, most people avoid you if they're not sure what to say. I hope it wears off soon

HT sounds fantastic, so glad you have that support

[YouAreMyRain]

UPDATE

She's done it again

After admitting to me in the summer that she made the original allegation up because she wanted me and exH to get back together, on Monday she started going off on one about how DP is mean to her and hurts her - in front of the homestart volunteer.

They have taken advice from head office and Camhs and decided they needed to refer to SS.

Bugger.