I want my baby back - Panorama

[Hels20]

I hesitate to put this on the board but would be interested in the views of anyone who watches this - it's tonight on BBC 1 at 9pm.

I hope it gives a balanced account. Then there is the Channel 4 programme on Wednesday T 10pm on Finding a Mum and Dad.

Maryz I agree x

shickenpops, it is completely inaccurate to say that local authorities don't have to consider costs. They have limited budgets which are cut back even further nowadays. Although some have in-house legal departments, their resources are limited and usually there is an arrangement whereby their work is charged for internally - i.e. the cost of a care case will come out of the social services department's budget. Additionally social services will virtually always have to pay a barrister independently, and they will have to pay the costs of expert witnesses.

In addition to all of that, if the child is fostered they will have to pay the foster parents, and will also have to cover extra costs such as travel for medical treatment and for contact visits with the birth parents. Sometimes there are special investigations such as placing the birth mother and baby in an assessment unit: these cost £4,500 a week and placements are usually for 6 weeks.

So far as I'm aware, it's also incorrect that legal aid changes mean that parents can't appoint a barrister in a contested care case. Certainly Spero seems to continue to be kept busy, and she is a barrister who acts on legal aid when she represents parents.

Devora, when I say pot-luck, I think you misinterpret me. I honestly believe the majority of social workers, do a fantastic job. The two I have met in my life-time were wonderful.

But are you saying that you can vouch for every sw in the UK, is a good person? And are you saying that mistakes aren't made?
Mistakes are made in every profession, and not every professional has the same integrity as their collegues.

I don't believe publicising every case (using childrens names) is wise, but I do believe publishing hearings is a positive step. I think in instances, in that there is reasonable doubt (when there is not hard evidence a parent is physically or emotionally abusive), parents should not be gagged from speaking out, and such cases should then be open to public scrutiny.

Someone suggested parents would be lynched if cases were published. I don't think if there is reasonable doubt, this would be the case. I think the public would be supportive, and would want answers. There have been enough publicised cases now, of parents wrongly losing their children, for parents empathise. Furthermore, I think parents would rather risk being lynched, than losing their children forever.

At the very least, this would prompt investigations to be more thorough.

peacejoy, I think you have too much faith in journalists. Public reaction to reported cases will depend very heavily on how they choose to spin the facts. If parents come within one of the many groups that Dacre has chosen to hate, God help them. Would parents want both to lose their children and to be lynched?

Hi nennypops, who are Dacre?

Dacre is editor of Daily Mail - I think.

Yep

Daily Mail fans always trot out the Lawrence case as reason that the Daily Mail is NOT actually a racist rag. What they fail to comment on is that Stephen Lawrence's dad had done decorating work for Paul Dacre, so he knew him and liked him. Had there not been that personal connection, does anyone seriously believe the Mail would have championed a black families search for Justice?

People do need to think carefully about the implications of openness.

On twitter yesterday I was accused of 'chatting shit' and being 'mates' with paedophiles and child killers by a woman who invited me to google her to see how much she loved her children and how it was wrong they had ever been taken away.

I did google her. I found a litany of abusive and dangerous behaviour, into which she had no insight at all. She has 7 children. The Daily Mail would rip her apart in seconds.

Is that cc Spero? She is very deluded, I actually think she believes she has done nothing wrong - it's scary.

I just had a quick read of her twitter. Interesting.

Yup. Violent partner, 6 year old with hot iron applied to neck, but she has done nothing wrong, she LOVES her kids.

She also accused me of stalking her when I replied to tweets she sent directly to me.

She is exactly the kind of person who gets thrown in the Jeremy Kyle bear baiting pit for others to judge and sneer at.

She was in care herself so there are probably reasons for her rage and anger.

O well, utter transparency will no doubt shortly be upon us. This will demonstrate once and for all just how utterly necessary most care proceedings are, at the expense of many fragile and vulnerable people who will be set upon and monstered by a media incapable of entertaining any balanced debate.

Hurrah!

This will demonstrate once and for all just how utterly necessary most care proceedings are, at the expense of many fragile and vulnerable people who will be set upon and monstered by a media incapable of entertaining any balanced debate.

Yes this. Perhaps we could just post this regularly. I think that utter transparency is almost inevitable and I don't think it will change much.

Re. the 'bonus' paid for adoption…

I think it was more that - as is usual in this target-oriented country (thank you Blair/Brown… not) - there were (and probably are) targets to be met. And as in a LOT of other areas where 'targets' rule (e.g. NHS), millions could be made by councils if they met those targets.

shickenpops Was the £40k per child you mentioned really applicable to the UK? Because that is the number (in US$ obviously) quoted a lot in the US… as in adoption agencies receive approximately $40k per adopted child. Who knows whether the UK handles these things similarly.

There undoubtedly were targets in place, but that was to improve adoption rates for children already in care, not to take more children into care to be adopted. They came to an end in 2008.

OK now I'm dying to follow spero and beyondthelimits on Twitter...

Kewcumber
I think that utter transparency is almost inevitable and I don't think it will change much.

Except that the children's names will slip out and those who are now in care or adopted will have their anonymity blown and there will be awful repercussions for them. At least the playground gossips won't know what happened to our children before we adopted them as neither of them were adopted in the UK, but I feel for those whose UK-born children were subject to care proceedings in the UK family courts.

I'm following Spero on Twitter! (feeling popular Spero?) I need to find everyone else

CC retweeted one of my tweets which I find mildly amusing, because I understand why THAT tweet but we couldn't be more opposing in views I think!

Lilka, tag spero and i'll find you :)

I'm a twitter idiot still - as in, write a tweet with #"Spero" in it, or @"Spero"??

@ for a person (Known as a "mention"). Hashtag for a topic.

So @fred to write to fred
#fred to write about fred - people can search by hashtag, so if they search for #fred, all tweets with that hashtag in it will pop up.

Ah! Thanks # then!

If you wanted fred to see it in his own timeline, you'd have to use @fred.

Okay, I've done it, hope that works

Or I could just tell you all what my twitter name is....!! That would probably be easier than this

Nope, cant see it
Though I'm a bit of a twitter noob too, so could well be me! If you wanna pm your name to me, I'll find you :)