Adopting a baby within the family, any advice please

[FiveMonths]

Hello,

I've changed my name to post this in case of being identified, I hope nobody minds.
I'm pregnant at the moment and in a difficult and rather frightening situation, basically the child's father started to become emotionally abusive around the time I became pregnant, and drinking to excess though he had been drinking prior to this - it was just starting to tip over into controlling and horrible behaviour towards me, and I ended the relationship.
It had not been a very long relationship, a bit of a whirlwind but I thought he was a very reasonable man. I was stupid to become pregnant with someone I had not known for very long, I know this now.

Anyway after I left him (we had not lived together) I was contacted by his previous partner to say that he had been violent and abusive to her for many years, had a proper drinking problem and was generally to be feared.

This scared the life out of me and I posted on MN as I didn't know what to do - lots of people said terminate but I was 13 weeks and it felt like a very difficult decision, particularly as my family are very, very anti abortion and promised to help me.

This is why I am posting now. I've spoken to my parents and my mother has suggested that she is very happy (if that is the right word) to adopt my child once it is born.
We spoke about 'normal' adoption but it would very much hurt my existing children to lose contact with a baby they are very excited about, and also we are concerned about the system, from what we understand, it would involve the baby being fostered for many weeks before placement with adoptive parents and we are afraid this would do some damage in terms of attachment, and so on - Mum is qualified in child psychology.

So we are thinking of her and Dad adopting the baby, having a lot of contact with it while it is small, and when it comes to the time where it can be adopted, I and my children will have frequent contact with it after that, so we will essentially be a large extended family

I'm not sure about a couple of things though.
Firstly, does anyone know whether a court would consider them adopting it based on reasons almost exclusively surrounding its father? I am worried that they will be cynical and say, why are you doing this, and will want to know his name and so on so that they can pursue his side of the family for permission etc.

Secondly has anyone had a situation anything like this, and has it been workable, with the child being passed on to your parents but still maintaining frequent contact with you - I would be very grateful for any experiences.

I should say that my reasons for going down this route are,

1. I am terrified of him - I've been vaguely threatened by his ex, and now once more current partner that he will 'never leave me alone', and that scares me especially now I know he has form for violence (he was arrested in the past for attacking her)
2. I am terrified of him having, or applying for, access to the child, even once it is older, as I would not trust him with my existing children, he's constantly drinking and smoking, is emotionally and afaik physically abusive - though he was only ever impatient with my kids when we were together, and I thought I could cope with that.
3. I'm afraid I will simply not be able to cope with having his child, as I am so traumatised with every contact I have from him or his partner, and I don't want to live in fear.

I would go with a residence order for my parents to have but that would not prevent him from applying for PR and contact. I think adoption would. And this way I would still know and see my child.

I realise I am being extreme but I have given this a lot of thought and spoken to the BAAF, and social services though they haven't called back yet. I just thought maybe someone on here would understand, know a bit more, or maybe have been involved in something similar.

Thankyou for reading if you made it this far.

I hope someone will come along who has some experience of this but personally I don't think I could do what you propose even in your situation as you are already a mother and I don't think the adoption would be sustainable as you would probably want to keep the baby yourself.
Maybe I'm just projecting how I would feel though.
I'm sure if he's violent and not on the Beth certificate he wont get pr anyway x

I am sorry I have no advice but i wanted to wish you well with whatever happens. I guess you are going to get as much professional help as possible. You do sound like you have good support and you sound very sensible considering the circumstances.

The only thing I would say is that I hope you understand that there will be no absolute 'correct' path forward and that you must always remember that whatever decision you make will have been taken with your best intentions. It would not be good to go through life second guessing your decision forever more.

Good luck with everything.

My only experience with this is that you don't need to officially adopt a child within a certain degree of kinship. For example, we have DP's nephew living with us, he has no parents (both deceased). There is no paperwork, no court order, nothing. Your parents are close enough relatives to look after your baby until you feel safe or secure enough to have him or her back.

good luck

I think if you have contacted social services they would want to support you in keeping baby with you. If they think that you are at risk they will provide you with help.

You poor thing, what a horrible situation. If your primary motivation is keeping yourself and your children safe, then get advice on how this can be done. Women's Aid can help you; so can social services.

Any kind of formal adoption will need involvement of social services, and they will not allow your child to be adopted without consulting and involving the birth father. I think they would be very concerned and reluctant to go down this route because of your fear of this man.

Your child can of course go and live with your parents. Will that give you the reassurance you need?

Please do seek proper advice on what can be done to protect yourself and your family from this man. I'm sure there must be a better way than this.

Good luck.

I don't have any experience with this at all but wanted to back ancienthistrionics post. It seems to me to be very sensible to have your baby living with your mum without anything officeial being done . That way if you do want baby back ( and I appreciate your fear but when the little one is born you will probbaly want to hold it in your arms and protect it irrespective of its father) you can just have baby back any time.

FiveMonths nothing to add to the advice people have given but just wanted to wish you all the best for things to work out in a good way. Very sorry you are in this terrible situation and hope you will get all the help and advice you need.

Hi, I have no experience of this but came across it, and wanted to send you best wishes and tell you how brave you seem. As some others have suggested, I wonder whether getting protection from the father established through courts would be a more direct route? I'm assuming the main reason for the adoption would be to take his rights away so that you won't need contact with him? I'm wondering if he knows you're pregnant, and whether he will have much interest in the child, if he's so busy drinking and smoking? It would be ideal for you if he just faded away.
As others have said, your parents could care for the baby in an informal sense without adoption.

To add a different angle, I have many friends of Pakistani and other non-English backgrounds, and children being cared for by other family members is much more common and normal, for many reasons. Often the child is placed where everyone thinks they'll get the best chances in life, or sometimes a nephew will be cared for by a childless couple for example. It seems to work out fine from what I've seen, with no deception or anything needed, the child often ends up with, in reality, 2 sets of parents.

Thankyou all very very much for taking the time to reply...I didn't think anyone would so I am really grateful.

I've been told that I can apply to have a residence order for my parents, and they can apply for PR for the child but this would not prevent its father applying also, and trying to get access to it. this is what scares me - and I know if the baby is actually, formally adopted, he cannot do this.

I was told by a legal advice helpline that SS/ the court will need his consent to make an adoption order, but then I spoke to the BAAF person again who said it is complicated and this is only for sure when the man has been a significant part of family life - eg a man who had lived with you and brought up other children with you, will be consulted, but a man who was only fleetingly involved with you will not need to be named.

We were together only for a few months and did not live together. So I am hoping that this means he will not need to be named.

Apparently the main reason they will want to contact the father is to try and establish whether there is a suitable placement on his side of the family, rather than to have the baby taken into another family altogether - and he has no way to provide this, unless his partner decides to offer it a home but their home is 200 miles from here and they are not even married, and I think it very unlikely, especially as they are both almost as old as my own parents.

So seeing as we are proposing it goes to my closest relatives and will have continual contact with me, and its siblings, I don't imagine that SS would see his side as a better or viable option even if he wanted to propose it. iyswim.

I am encouraged to hear about families who have brought up other people's children and had them live with them, it sounds great, I like this idea a lot - but we do need the legal protection from his trying to gain access, I think.

One issue is that despite repeated serious violence over the years (told to me - I have no corroboration) he was not violent to me, only controlling, so I have no evidence to try and prevent him getting PR or access and I fear he would be granted it anyway, despite having a police record.

In one way for my parents to look after the child temporarily would set my mind at rest, as it makes it less likely he will turn up here causing trouble (he does know I am pregnant and when the baby is due, unfortunately - though apparently he is saying to her that he thinks it isn't his, I'm just after his money etc - I've already told them I will bypass the CSA if I can just to have no involvement with him) but still, I wish it was clearer what exactly I can do to protect my child, as this is all I really want to do.

Thanks again for all your kindness. I will try and speak to SS again tomorrow. I keep getting calls from his partner threatening that he will 'come and find me' when it is born, but I don't know what he will do when he does.

Hi

I have not read your full thread as I'm in a rush but had to respond. You are going back a fair few years (about 30) but I was adopted by my maternal grandparents so it can/could be done. I don't know too much about it but i did have contact with my birth mother throughout my childhood, she was simply described as my sister which is what I still call her today. I have an older 'brother' who is actually my uncle. This was not done because the father was an issue, he simply did not want me and my 'sisters' new boyfriend was not interested in a baby so she asked my mam to adopt me.
I know that the biological father had to give his consent, despite not being on my birth certificate, and everyone involved had to be on board including my 'brother'. I can find out more if you think it's relevant. PM me if you want, but as I say, it was a while ago

Thankyou very much, Doodlekitty, that is really informative - I hope that you don't feel you've been hurt by your experience, and that your childhood was a happy one.

I am really glad that someone here has experience of being adopted by their grandparents. I'm really not sure how often it happens these days.

Hi fivemonths, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. I don't have any directly relevant experience but would say:

• see a lawyer to understand clearly your rights to withhold contact and his rights to have access to his child. Your options might become clearer then

• do you want your child to legally become your brother / sister? I know I couldn't get my head around this, even if I thought it were for the best

• legal protection for your child is one thing, but no guarantee that they will be safe (or indeed you, your other children, or your parents). Sorry to be blunt, but an adoption order is only a piece of paper, not a completely new identity (as presumably your ExP knows your parents surname, if different from yours?) or a safe house

• the judge considering the adoption order may order SS to contact the father or explain why his consent should not be sought, even if SS have decided it is appropriate to proceed without it. So he might have to be contacted to confirm that he is content for the adoption to proceed or SS to explain why his views don't matter (to put it simply).

This is all so complicated, please get some proper advice, from Women's Aid (about keeping safe) and a lawyer (about legal options). Fingers crossed you find a solution which works for you all.

FSG - many thanks.

I've been given the numbers of several solicitors who will do legal aid, so I am going to speak to one of them soon I hope but wanted to get as much info as possible beforehand from other sources, if that makes sense - I am going to see someone at the local Refuge for a risk assessment in the next few weeks, once the children are back at school, and I hope this will help with keeping safe.

I am fine with whatever odd things it might do to our family in terms of what we are called - if it has to be called my brother or sister then so be it, my mother has said that she will basically be letting me take care of the baby as much as possible, no one will lie to the child, and its brothers will still be its brothers at least in the way we talk as a family. I'm sure there will be issues about who decides what and who is the mother, there are bound to be, but as my mother was hugely involved in bringing up my elder ds (we lived very near at the time) the crossover might not be too confusing, I hope not anyway. (possibly naive!)

I don't think he is dangerous enough for us to need a safe house, my main concern is his legal right to access/contact with the baby, because this is something he may seek to exploit; if he has no legal way into our lives, I feel he is unlikely to break the law to gain it, as his work means everything to him and therefore anything that would threaten his job would be out. It just wouldn't be worth it to him.

He has left me alone (though his partner hasn't) for around 6 weeks so far and I think there is very little incentive for him to make contact - he knows the relationship is over - and he did not care an awful lot about the baby, initially, just in the context of a trophy, and if he knows I hate him and will never take him back, it's kind of pointless for him to want that.

It's just a matter of trying to close the doors so that he is 'free' to move on without feeling like he has anything to prove. I hope I am right about that.

I didn't realise SS might be forced to contact him to tell him either way. Thankyou - will certainly check that out.

I'm not sure what they could do though if I just walked away from the child, or refused to say who he as? I mean they couldn't force me to keep the baby could they?

I would love to keep it - if only this man would move back home, or something, or just disappear off the face of the earth and I could carry on as I would normally. But surely if I don't tell them who he is, what could they do?

This might seem a dumb question - but can you just not list him as the father? Just leave blank/ unknown?

Sorry - my error, has been much longer than 6 weeks..we split up at the start of June, I have only had a few texts since then.

Hi ForeverGreek - yes, it is important not to name him on the certificate when I register the baby.

It doesn't stop him then from trying to obtain legal rights through court though, if he wants to. And as far as I know most fathers who apply are granted these rights. However horribly they have behaved towards the mother/ other people in the past.

Have you already named him to SS?

If not, dont. He has no PR as you are not married. You couldnt put his name on the BC without him being there even if you want to.

He would have to apply to the courts to get PR. Im not sure of this process, but do you think he really would go through all that, the time and cost, plus the child support payments for the next 18 years simply to have a trophy?

How does his partner contact you? Can you change your number? Would moving house be an option?

I can understand why you are looking at the option of adoption. But if you want this child you shouldnt let this man stand in your way. Fight for your child! Its not impossible!

I guess it would depend if you were prepared to be in contempt of court rather than name the father if ordered to do so. At least not naming him on the birth certificate means he would have to go through a process to get PR, rather than him getting it automatically, and he might never want to go down that route

Can you tell him you've miscarried? And then move house?

No, I've not named him apart from to the legal helpline which I was told was so they could check they weren't advising him also iyswim...I was told this was confidential. I hope it was.

He's not even on my maternity notes.

That is a good point actually - about it being a legal process for him to get PR and would be want to bother. I don't know, but it would always be hanging over my head as the child grew up. He could literally decide to go for it at any stage couldn't he. And then after that there would be contact, he would be able to tell me what schools to send it to, I'd have to ask him before going away anywhere, etc etc. I hate the thought of him having that sort of power - and then there's the everyday thing of him having contact and my not knowing what is going on when the child is with him.

I don't know if he would abuse a child but if what his partner tells me is true, he is a very violent man. Also the constant exposure to smoke and alcohol would be horrendous for a child. and if he hates me and would talk badly about me all the time, as well...I just feel it would be an awful, awful situation for the child to be in with a man like this.

I suppose what I am really hoping to achieve is peace of mind, knowing he cannot do anything legally, now or in the future, because frankly if I could know all this about him 6 months ago I would have run a mile, and even 4 months ago I'd have had a termination - but as I didn't get rid of the child, I'm now stuck in a nightmare and afraid I won't be allowed to protect it.

Of course you do not have to name the Father on the BC if you are not married. Although this is a bit unethical it would mean that he would have to jump through a lot of hoops to get access and his parentage established. If he is already doubting his part in this pregnancy then it would be advisable to encourage that thought and just get on and do your own thing. This would solve the problem in the short to medium term by removing him from your life. The court process is really slow and would rely on a lot of input from him and I doubt he would stay the distance.

The problem is the long term; what do you tell the child? But honestly I would make it as hard as possible for him to even claim the child. The thing is even if he had been violent to you this would not preclude him from getting access it just depends on whether you think he can be arsed to pursue this through the courts.
I think it would be much harder for the child to live with being rejected by you (as it could easily claim) when you have other children and being given to your parents rather than having to untangle a bit of a mess about it's parentage when it is older.

Mavis, yes, in theory I could already have done that - and it certainly crossed my mind. What stopped me was that it would be hard to move house, and cause my other kids a lot of upset, moving schools and so on, ds would be devastated to lose his friends. And I could not go far enough away without losing all my family support and friends, also - so it would be a huge thing to do, and cost my whole family a lot of emotional heartache and difficulty.

Plus lying about a miscarriage felt very wrong to me - and I'd always be afraid that he would somehow find out, and come and 'get' me for deceiving him, iyswim. I think that in itself would stop me from sleeping.

I do wish there was a simple way out of this.

To be honest I would be telling him I had a miscarriage/abortion or that the baby wasn't his- if you say he is thinking that or telling others anyway, it may work? Make up a one night stand/fling from while you were together.

I have just noticed that you say he was arrested for assaulting an ex? Was he convicted? Does he have any other convictions?

The fact this happened will help your case if it ever came to a court case for his PR. They will believe that he was becoming abusive towards you as this is behaviour he has displayed before. That added to the fact that he has shown no interest during the pregnancy except to get his partner to threaten you...

Personally I dont think this man has any intention of fighting for PR. But if he did, he has a history of violence, issues with drink etc. I would find it hard to believe a court would consider this man suitable to be a father.