Adopting a baby within the family, any advice please

[FiveMonths]

Hello,

I've changed my name to post this in case of being identified, I hope nobody minds.
I'm pregnant at the moment and in a difficult and rather frightening situation, basically the child's father started to become emotionally abusive around the time I became pregnant, and drinking to excess though he had been drinking prior to this - it was just starting to tip over into controlling and horrible behaviour towards me, and I ended the relationship.
It had not been a very long relationship, a bit of a whirlwind but I thought he was a very reasonable man. I was stupid to become pregnant with someone I had not known for very long, I know this now.

Anyway after I left him (we had not lived together) I was contacted by his previous partner to say that he had been violent and abusive to her for many years, had a proper drinking problem and was generally to be feared.

This scared the life out of me and I posted on MN as I didn't know what to do - lots of people said terminate but I was 13 weeks and it felt like a very difficult decision, particularly as my family are very, very anti abortion and promised to help me.

This is why I am posting now. I've spoken to my parents and my mother has suggested that she is very happy (if that is the right word) to adopt my child once it is born.
We spoke about 'normal' adoption but it would very much hurt my existing children to lose contact with a baby they are very excited about, and also we are concerned about the system, from what we understand, it would involve the baby being fostered for many weeks before placement with adoptive parents and we are afraid this would do some damage in terms of attachment, and so on - Mum is qualified in child psychology.

So we are thinking of her and Dad adopting the baby, having a lot of contact with it while it is small, and when it comes to the time where it can be adopted, I and my children will have frequent contact with it after that, so we will essentially be a large extended family

I'm not sure about a couple of things though.
Firstly, does anyone know whether a court would consider them adopting it based on reasons almost exclusively surrounding its father? I am worried that they will be cynical and say, why are you doing this, and will want to know his name and so on so that they can pursue his side of the family for permission etc.

Secondly has anyone had a situation anything like this, and has it been workable, with the child being passed on to your parents but still maintaining frequent contact with you - I would be very grateful for any experiences.

I should say that my reasons for going down this route are,

1. I am terrified of him - I've been vaguely threatened by his ex, and now once more current partner that he will 'never leave me alone', and that scares me especially now I know he has form for violence (he was arrested in the past for attacking her)
2. I am terrified of him having, or applying for, access to the child, even once it is older, as I would not trust him with my existing children, he's constantly drinking and smoking, is emotionally and afaik physically abusive - though he was only ever impatient with my kids when we were together, and I thought I could cope with that.
3. I'm afraid I will simply not be able to cope with having his child, as I am so traumatised with every contact I have from him or his partner, and I don't want to live in fear.

I would go with a residence order for my parents to have but that would not prevent him from applying for PR and contact. I think adoption would. And this way I would still know and see my child.

I realise I am being extreme but I have given this a lot of thought and spoken to the BAAF, and social services though they haven't called back yet. I just thought maybe someone on here would understand, know a bit more, or maybe have been involved in something similar.

Thankyou for reading if you made it this far.

Brandy, thankyou - it is good to know that the court process takes a long time, he is not the cleverest bloke in the world and I doubt he has the commitment, unless it would mean he got to have back the relationship we had, which I think was his main concern. And he knows full well it has gone, so getting access to a child wouldn't change that.

There is a chance he will not pursue it. I just need to know he can't. I can see that the child might feel rejected in a sense - I really hope it wouldn't - particularly as I would be there so much. But if I was honest and explained that it was purely to protect it from him, maybe that would help?

Breakout - yes, I'm tempted to do that especially as the hospital has changed my dates, so I could say it was conceived while he was away, which he was...iyswim. (dates are wrong I think - I wasn't sleeping with anyone else at all).
But then he would be even angrier, I'd have lied about it and tricked him for months and God knows what he might do to me for that. I think anything which makes him more upset would not be a great idea at this stage.

Wannabe, yes, he was arrested - I managed to get this info out of his partner on the phone, but I didn't ask if he was charged. However it sounds like a very violent incident at the time and the police tell me they will have a record of it, even if it was several years ago. I suppose that is good. He has a conviction I know about for drinking and driving, as well.

I do hope these things would go against him but not sure if they would be thought relevant to PR. I just hope he does not apply for it.

Hello.
IME it is very difficult for GP to be approved to adopt.
They tend to have Special Gaurdianship Orders (SGOs)
I would not recommend an RO as pretty much anyone can apply for one ans this can cause a lot of distress even if they have no chance of getting one.
What about prohibitive steps order?

The father will have pr but you can try and restrict it with the above order and there at others but my addled brain cannot recall them.

The problem is that the only way to remove PR is adoption
He will have to agree
The courts do not like GP adoptions.

Contact www.frg.org.uk for easy to access legal fact sheets on PR and kinship care

By the way, not naming the father on the BC is not unethical.

You cannot name the father unless he is physically standing in the room at time of registration when the couple arent married. Even if you wanted to you just cant.

Your child might "blame" you. It also might not. But giving it up, even if to your family, might be more unforgivable to it than not letting it be involved with its father.

I have no experience in this but i wish you luck in whatever you decide.
Tell him the baby is not his, and whatever you do do not name him on the birth certificate. I would go along the route of non adoption & get your mum to have baby until you have found somewhere to live that isn't any where near this man and that you are safe.

also if I said I'd miscarried or had an abortion, I'd be scared to leave the house as his work is based near here, so he would of course see me still pregnant at some point.

the best things I can think of are,

1. He moves back home to live with her properly
2. He loses his license or job or both, with the drinking this is always possible, and goes back home (currently he goes back every few weeks)
3. He just loses interest - I don't know if this will happen.

I think what happens currently is that every time they fight, which apparently they have always done, my name comes up, and then he storms out and she decides to ring me up to check we are not back together. Then she reels off a load of stuff about how awful he is and what he will do to me.
I've asked her not to call me again, as the threats she makes just reduce me to a wreck every time. But she keeps making me promise to tell her if he gets in touch with me and in a way I think this deters him from hassling me, so might be a good thing.

I want to clarify that when we met he told her he had met someone else and stopped going home. He only went back to her after we broke up.

The way the family court system works, if he actually sought parental rights and to challenge an adoption, he would very likely win. To adopt out a child against the express wishes of one of the parents would be unusual, unless he had convictions or circumstances that would make him deemed unsafe to be around the child. The assumption is for parental rights and you would have to prove him unsuitable, rather than the other way around.
The court can also order a DNA test so purposefully lying would not be a sensible idea for you.

Sorry for x posts. Wannabe - I see what you mean, but I'm just not confident that I will be able to stop contact with its father, unless it is adopted. I have heard/read on here how hard it is to stop a father gaining access and that's what worries me - it feels like the only certain way, if it's even possible, if to have an adoption in place.

If I felt I could fight him getting access or PR quite easily then I would go with that route but I have no confidence that he wouldn't get those things.

Hi MrsDevere, thankyou so much for the link. I am worried that you say the courts don't like grandparent adoptions. Do you know why? I just assumed they would be more accommodating about a proposal like this than the alternative of handing over the baby to a family it had no connections with, I suppose, with al lthe fostering and changing of attachments that would involve.

Is it just because of the alteration and weirdness in being called your child's sister, etc etc, or is there more to it than that?

But surely getting the anger out of the way now, then being able to put it out of your mind for the next 18 years is the better option?

Personally I would write a letter, telling him the dates were wrong, that the baby was concieved in a night of drunken madness, and that you are sorry to put him through it but wanted him to know before he got emotionally connected to the baby. Make no mention of the fact you didn;t want him around anyway. Then bugger off with the kids for a week or two, don't take mobiles, go to butlins for a week or something. Stay out of the way so he can't bump into you. Then stick to that story. To everyone. You never know who is going to get drunk in 5 years and say something they don't mean in front of someone else, and before you know it word has got around.

Personally, I think the emotional damage you could cause by doing this to the child is at the very least the same level to the worry of being around a father who is a drinker and smoker(as you don't think he would be violent to a child). My daughter has been rejected by her father by the majority of her life, and the emotional damage this has caused her is huge. Your child could see themselves as rejected by you, and still have to see it's siblings going home with you every day- imagine the hurt that could cause.

I'm not sure if I could get a prohibited steps order unless he had done something to me iyswim>?

Pumpkin, thankyou for your good wishes. And everyone else who has offered the same - it helps a lot. I feel very alone with this.

PVL - thankyou - I guess that makes sense. Could he challenge an adoption after the fact? Also, what if he did - would I be forced to keep the child? I cannot imagine he would offer to care for it himself, or indeed be able to. What would the court do in a case like that?

I'd have thought the only options would be to remove the childto the care of the parent who didn't want it adopted (unlikely as I said) or to remove it to be placed into care, which would surely be worse for the child.

Breakout, I can see that you have a point - to see me taking ds 1 and 2 home with me while it was left with my parents might indeed be very damaging.

I wonder if perhaps me and my parents are seeing this as something short term, until the danger has passed - and that once he is resigned to giving up his rights, (if it even bothers him) the child could then come and live with me and my other children.

I can see this is playing around with its life. It's far from ideal. Perhaps it would be better to hand it over to a different family altogether.

Btw I didn't say I think he would not be violent to a child. I said I don't know if he would be or not - and chances are he would, as he showed signs of being very impatient with my children - on one occasion he left the house rather than get angry with ds2, I could see he was finding it hard to keep in control of his temper.

It's only in hindsight that I realise what his temper is capable of.

I don't think you'd get as far as an adoption without involving him. They will want to know the fathers name, and will want him to sign over any claim to the child. And you don't know if he would do that.
If you think about from a social services/court point of view, if they have a mother who says she doesn't want the child, and a father who (lets say) says he does, in the absence of a good reason why not, they will give the child to the father, not to the mothers parents.

You know it would be much easier to keep the baby and deny it is his. Then it would all be on him to prove otherwise, would he pay to go to court to order a dna test?

Speak to Family Rights Group frg - they are an amazingly helpful organisation.

I have had care of my grandson since he was 8m old (although that was via him going into foster care, coming to me under kinship foster care, and I now have a Special Guardianship Order).

As others have said, if father is not on the birth cert he doesnt have PR. If your parents have a special guardianship order it will be via a court order which will define who should have PR/contact etc. The judges are usually very sympathetic and sensible. If father wants to fight to be on birth cert etc, let him - see how long he can be bothered for ... you would be within your rights to ask for supervised contact etc if social services get involved given his past history.

There are a few support groups on the internet/FB etc for kinship carers and they might be able to help you more. Feel free to pm me if you want me to give you more details.

How could it ever be short term? Once the baby is here, there is the chance that at any point he could decide to rock the boat. He could have another argument with his partner, and start the ball rolling to spite her, or just see you one day -not even with the baby there- and decide to cause trouble. You would just be waiting for it to happen, and it would put such a pressure on your life.

I think it's probably not worth the risk, PVL - I'm generally very honest and he knows this. Though he is the total opposite. I think it would risk totally discrediting me in any future conflicts we might have. I can't take that risk.

I do think there are many reasons why he would not gain residency, though he might well gain access - that's the thing, if he went for access he would likely get it albeit possibly supervised. But it would mean endless hassle and harassment from him. That would be awful for my whole family, me, the children, all the stress of it.

If he went for residency, it would be very different - I hope at least. He has former conviction(s) and arrests, he drinks constantly, smokes constantly, is in very full time employment so never at home, had very little experience with children, is nearly at retirement age, his partner lives 200 miles away so unable to help (unless they took the child away from here completely - and she is not related to any of us, anyway) and he lives in a dingy, filthy room above a pub which is totally unsuitable for a child of any age.

I don't see how he could be awared it, I really don't.

Hello five :)
I think it is pretty much down to the massive shift in dynamics.
It was more common years ago because
A. The adoptions were often informal rather than legal
B. adoptions were secret. They are presumed to be open now with the hild being aware.

The issues with contact will still remain if your parents get an SGO. The father can still apply for and be awarded contact.

I hope you don't mind me saying this but I feel the adoption plan is not going to be the simplest or most effective way of dealing with this issue.

Unless you have another family member who is willing to legally adopt the baby the issues with the birth father will remain.

It is a lot to ask someone to adopt a baby who will still be 'yours' and you would be left with no legal standing if it didn't work out.

If you could, would you keep the baby?
If so I think you might need to totally rethink this

If you do not feel able (I am in no way judging you) you have the option
A.LA care - your baby is likely to be adopted quickly
B. GPs getting an RO or SGO with the likelihood that father will want access
C. Kinship care with other family or friends but if it is not adoption the access issues will remain

Ladyinthelibrary - thankyou so much for your post. I will look at the FRG in a minute ( think it is the same as MrsDevere referred to?) and see what it says on there.

I am glad the courts tend to be sympathetic and that he might well get supervision if he is given access. That's a good thing at least.

I wonder if you could explain more about the SGO, please? What does it mean in real terms - does your grandson still have contact with his birth parents? Is he Ok - sorry, I hope you know what I mean - about being looked after by someone else?

I think the one question you haven't answered so far is: Do you want to raise this baby?

At some point, no matter what the decision, he is going to be angry.
Parents adopt: angry he has no say, could potentially say no and apply for guardianship
You keep: Angry you are calling the shots, could push for access
Lie about it not been his: Angry you cheated on him.

I don't think there is any situation where his anger could not potentially rise at some point, and cause problems for you.

Ah, x posts - Thankyou Mrs DV, that's given me a lot to think about.

I have a sister who I considered asking but I haven;t mentioned it to her yet as she might well say no. Would the courts take on this be more favourable do you think?

I have no concerns about my parents or sister's ability to do a very good job as parents of my child. They are all excellent with children. So hopefully that's not an issue. I would give up my legal standing to them without hesitation.

I wonder if LA adoption is a better bet though. My children would be really upset - as would my mother - and I would, too. But if it would have more of a chance of working out then perhaps it would be best.

Do you know how quickly a child is normally placed permanently - and is it normally /often with the foster family it went into at birth/6 weeks old? That would make me feel better if so - having to get used to several different mothers can't be a good thing even if you end up with the right one in the long run.

Breakout, I understand what you mean now.

Yes, you're right. He is already angry and will become moreso at some point I imagine, whatever I do. I suppose the thought of a legal arrangement in place means that at least he would be restricted in what he could do about it - he'd have to break the law to make any impact. Which is maybe a slight deterrent to him.

I do want to raise it. With my heart I do - but I am terrified to, under constant threat of his involvement. And I want to protect it, more than I want to raise it - whatever that takes. Hope that makes sense.

Ok, I have a bit of knowledge in this field but don't want to say too much as don't want to out myself.

Firstly, reading the thread through, it sounds to me as you want to keep your baby and I really think that you can do that ......I would agree with the posters who advised you to take legal advice and create/keep a log diary of all incidents that have caused you concern regarding this man. Don't name him on the BC and don't allow him contact - the onus is then on him to seek PR/contact via the courts. This could take a long time, particularly if you insist on DNA tests. And would he bother?? The court would appoint a SW to act in your child's best interests......and I would hope that a sensible SW would always recommend to ensure the child is protected......

With regard to adoption......yes your mother or sister could apply to privately adopt your child. They could not do this until your child had lived with them for one year and their application would ask the name of the father, but they could leave this blank. Again, a SW would be involved and would ask questions about the father - I am not sure if you would feel comfortable with lying - you sound very honest to me. If they know the father's name then they have a duty to try and elicit his views - this would be done ensuring he does not know yours or the child's whereabouts given the risks -he would not necessarily be able to prevent the adoption but it gives him a voice in court that he doesn't need to initiate himself, ITKWIM.

Finally, LA adoption.....you can contact your local adoption team and seek advice - a SW would come out and see you and explain the process. Again, if they have the father's details then they have to try and include his views/seek his consent. Child would be placed with foster carers under voluntary s20 accommodation at birth (if you wanted this). You cannot consent to adoption until the baby is 6 weeks old and the court process could take longer if the father is invovled. The baby won't be placed with adopters until a placement order is granted by the courts so probably a few months at the earliest. Once AO granted then it is final and yes, neither you nor the father have any PR.

But it sounds to me as though you really want to keep this baby and I really believe that you can do that. I hope that is helpful and good luck.

Of course it makes sense, you're worried about your baby! But something to take hope from is that, at the moment, he doesn't seem interested. If anything, it is his partner causing issues. You say you have asked her to stop getting in contact- next time she does, warn her you'll be getting police involved for harrassment, and do it if she carries on. Change your phone number. Seperate yourself from them as much as possible. Make sure things are all documented so that if, in however many years in the future, he decides to push for access, it is as difficult as possible. He would have to push for DNA testing as he is not on the birth certificate, you would make him apply to courts for access, it would be supervised as he has a history of violence/alcohol abuse, he would not be able to take the child near her as she has that history of harrassment against you.

I think you may need to consider that having the baby adopted, while protecting that baby from him, may mean that you and your older children are more likely to become targets- I would think, out of all the options you are giving, the one that would anger him most would be another family adopting the child, with him given no say or information about it, and basically being told tough luck.

I'm sorry I'm not being more supportive of adoption here - I have no experience in it, but believe it's a great thing, when it's what the parents really believe in. But to come to this decision at 5 months pregnant, full of hormones, with a baby you really want to raise yourself- I think you will really regret it.

Sweetheart, I think you need to sit down and talk to an experienced counsellor.
I am not getting the feeling that adoption is what you really want.

I would think that a relinquished baby in good health, known to LA pre birth would be placed quickly. The baby would go into fostercare first unless it was a concurrent planning scheme in place.

I can see no problem with your sister adopting if she agrees, her partner agrees and there are no significant obstacles.

I sincerely wish you all the best with whatever you decide