Do adopted children have the right to meet their bio-relatives during their childhood?

[wasthatthatguy]

I think the answer to this question is clearly yes.

Social workers got rid of the child's bio-parents, but they did not, and were not entitled to, get rid of all of the child's bio-relatives.

Is it not the duty of the child's adoptive parents to discover the circumstances of the child's removal from his or her bio-family and, unless there are very compelling reasons why the child should not be allowed direct contact with them, arrange contact meetings?

Due to the privacy of the family courts, any social workers will be unable to tell adoptive parents the details of how the bio-parents were alleged to have failed as parents.

Although there have to be reasons why a child was forcibly adopted, it isn't essential that the child was harmed before adoption. A fear that the child may be harmed in the future is sufficient.

I think adoptive parents will find that in at least 50% of cases the alleged and "proven" actual or predicted parenting failures will not appear very alarming and thereby not make contact meetings between the child and his or her bio-parents and or other bio-relatives inappropriate.

Nananina as a SW manager for many years how did that get past you? I guess you learn something new everyday

As an adoptive parent of two and foster carer of many - Most with attachment disorder/attachment difficulty I guess that's all my fault eh? Absolutely nothing to do with the way they were neglected and abused raised by their bio parent/s eh?

You have misrepresented my argument again. I have already made it quite clear.

Each child is an individual child. Their experiences vary. Some suffer from the birth parents. Some suffer from the care system. Some suffer from both.

I am simply trying to reduce the suffering by improving the decisionmaking.

Are we supposed to make an informed opinion based on that link you posted?

Some pregnant horsey woman has fled the country to dodge the "babysnatchers". With further research (Good old Google) I learnt that her other child has been removed from her care - is the child with her father?

You will have to provide more compelling evidence for anyone to reach an informed decision I'm afraid.

I have two (unrelated) children in my care at the minute. Both are suffering attachment problems. They were before they were placed with me. When I adopt them will the blame for their problems be laid at my feet?

Try to analyse the arguments.

We need a care system. I would personally prefer one more like the Danish system which has better results for the children.

I think the one we have although it does get things right also gets things badly wrong many many times. It is so damaged that the people working within it often cannot tell.

I do have social workers who tell me what is going on and who are entirely supportive of my criticisms.

I know nothing of the Danish System. Could you enlighten me please?

Ah, now I'm sure we can all agree that the system could be improved.

Do tell us about what happens in Denmark.

State run childrens homes
www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/04/time_to_bring_back_childrens_h.html

He doesn't know anything about the Danish system Corsa/hester - it's something he trots out all the time. Even if he did know, the social policies of the Scandinavian countries are I believe much more child centred for parents and children than the UK. OK here's your chance JH you are being requested to give details about the Danish system (in detail) and evidence for your assertion that there are better outcomes for children.

And don't patronise us by telling us to "try to analyse the argument" - that's good coming from you, with your random comments and refusal to provide evidence other than a list of figures you get from SSD. I am still waiting for a response to my request that you provide evidence for your assertion that children with attachment disorder are often mistaken for autistic children. ???? Can I expect this anytime soon - no thought not, because you don't have the evidence, you just spout things that are nonsensical.

When you talk of "better decision making" a lot of these adoptors won't know what you mean, but I do because I've heard it all before from you. You have actually posted that you believe there is a conspiracy between all professionals involved in care proceedings, social workers, managers, children's guardians (who are independent of the LA) psychologists, GPs, consultant psychiatrists, the lawyers for the LA and the lawyers acting for the parents (in your own words) they "roll over" and agree with the LA because they need to pay their mortgage. This so angered a family law barrister that she too wrote to Nick Clegg about you. You also believe that the judge is in on the conspiracy, and rubber stamps the applications for a care order. NOW can you deny that you have not posted what I have outlined above? Any minute now you will be talking of there not being any "checks and balances" which is another of your favourite comments.

I think these adoptors should know that you were severely criticised by a high court judge Wall LJ and his criticism of you was contained in his judgement. Also a Birmingham judge ordered you out of his court. You tried to sue Birmingham City Council for £30,000 for some perceived wrong doing in relation to a personal matter related to a social work investigation, and said that the social workers should pay from their own pockets!! Again can you deny that any of this is true???

The truth of the matter is that you have an axe to grind based on something personal (although you will deny this) and I don't think I could give details on MN although I found the details on line (can't remember how) but I think it was actually when I googled your name.

SO MNs/adoptors - he actually does believe that babies are snatched from decent parents to get them adopted to meet adoption targets. Again can you deny that you have made this allegation over and over again. So trying to soft peddle now you are being faced with the people who love and care for these attachment disordered children just won't wash.

I don't believe that any social worker agrees with you about your conspiracy theory. Absolute rubbish. I know you often makes some random comment that a social worker has agreed with you about this or that.

Just go away .......................

I have an adopted daughter. I would dearly love to have some contact with her birth mother. I would love my daughter to have the same. Her birth mother cannot manage this. My adopted daughter has twice-yearly direct contact with her birth father. We are in the process of taking the arrangements for this out of the hands of social services and organising it ourselves as we think we can make the experience more pleasant for all parties.

Being an adoptive parent is challenging enough without also being accused of trying to prevent our adopted child(ren) from knowing where they came from or of wilfully trying to stop them from having positive contact with birth parents where that is possible.

HI fishtank - no I don't know either how it never registered with me and my colleagues and our foster and adoptive parents, about attachment disorder. And all those course I ran for fostercarers and adoptors must have been about flower arranging and not insecure attachments, and I'm sure you will now be scurrying off to find info on the subject. Maybe JH can enlighten us all as to what it is, how it is caused and the ways in which it manifests itself.

SO here's another challenge for you JH

You once complained I raised too many issues in my posts, which you clearly found confusing. So just to re-cap - I am awaiting.

1. Where is your evidence for your statement that attachment disordered children are often mistaken for those with autism?

1. Can you confirm or deny the issues that I posted on 9th May about what you mean by "better decisionmaking"

1. Can you tell us: what is attachment disorder

what is the cause how does it manifest itself.

SO come on JH don't hold back -I've numbered the points to make it easier for you to follow.

Janni - yes it is insulting isn't it for someone to make proclomations about adopted children and contact with the birth parents, when they know absolutely nothing about the individual circumstances of the adoption triangle. Take no heed, JH talks nonsense. I've seen it all before. I think it's worse because he is an MP -LibDem for Yardley in Birmingham.

I think I can answer the question you put to JH Maryz because he does in fact think the same way as thatguy/melvinscomment. JH never gives proper responses to anything put to him, as I think he doesn't know the answers, he just posts some random comment. As you can see I have challenged him on several issues but I won't get a proper response. If you've read what I've poste on 9th May about his beliefs about the conspiracy theory, it is very worrying isn't it and insulting to professionals and foster carers and adoptie parents, struggling to cope with children who were probably not moved earlier enough. Martin Narey (chief exec of Barnardoes) has made this point very forcibly in the fairly recent past and in my experience that is the cause of many of the problems - leaving children too long in families where they are not safe - with social workers always hoping "things will change" - as with Peter Connelly.

I too am concerned that this thread is getting disrupted and I am guilty of furthering that disruption by responding to JH's claims, even though I have suggested that we all ignore him. I have tried and failed but wil try again because as yoy say, you adoptors need all the support you can get.

Hi NN. Did you mean I will by scurrying off......... or JH?

Sorry if you took my post the wrong way. I was being sarcastic. Of course if anyone should know about Attachment disorder it will be you. I have been on enough Attachment courses to last me a lifetime.

I, too, am eagerly awaiting info on the Danish system.

I could not agree more that there should be changes to Children's Services in the UK. I would love to see more rights for children. It appears that Social Services have no option than to bow to the (often unrealistic) wants of bio parents, with little, or no, regard to the needs and wishes of children.

fishtank - I don't think NN did take your post the wrong way! Please don't scurry anywhere.

Fishttank - no of course I didn't take your post the wrong way - I was just carrying on with the sarcasm in the light of JH's post about adopted children and attachment disorder. Yes I absolutely agree there should be more emphasis on the child's rights. That is not to say birth parents shouldn't have any rights but the pendulum has swung much too far in their direction.

Anyway we've given JH something to think about but yes I would like to see him scurry off for good and all.

Phew! (mops brow) .

Maybe JH/Melvin/ThatDaftGuy will be on later to enlighten us all. There again maybe not.

JH - two more question to add to the 3 I posed in my post of 9th May -

Please explain to us about the Danish system for children in care. You approve of it so much you must have all the details, so please explain the system

Also Maryz wants to know if you support the post thatguy

So that's 5 questions JH.

Please number your responses in the interests of clarity.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328895/Love-cheat-MP-John-Hemmings-200k-loan-paid-YOU.html

Should we trust this guy to act in children's best interests? Really!

Nick Clegg's got a bit more to worry about than a few cheesed-off MNetters, hasn't he?

Nice cat, though

Thanks for that Fish. Can I also direct you to this -

www.headoflegal.com/2011/03/23/john-hemming-mp-abuse-of-power-and-privilege/

tut tut tut

Oops
www.headoflegal.com/2011/03/23/john-hemming-mp-abuse-of-power-and-privilege/

Have name changed for this.

Whilst we are on the subject of proffessionals who act in the interest of lining their own pockets and don't give a stuff about the needs of children I would like to bring your attention to this untruthful, conniving bastard

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2005/may/09/uknews

Despite being struck off as a social worker he set up his own business as an Independent Social Worker who "Helped children to be reunited with their birth families".

I spent 4 years watching my then foster child become more and more distressed as he said blatent lies to childrens services in his attempt to reunite child with (absolutely unsuitable) bio parents.

Thankfully the Judge saw through him and threw him out of Court. Social Services on the other hand had to pay him thousands of pounds for services rendered.

Mumsnetters keep his name in the back of your mind in case he turns up on your doorstep via social services (On the pretence of supporting a child in your care) in an attempt to line his pockets. He is a disgusting, vile individual. Be on your guard and take nothing he says as valid.