PHD self funded without undergraduate degree

[Andywarholswig]

I did a 2 yr part time MSc in business subject topic part time and absolutely loved it. Got on the course in the basis of professional experience (20 + years in a global role) and additional professional qualifications. I got a distinction (if that helps).

I have been seriously considering a part-time PHD (self funded) and have the basis of my research topic in my head but I wonder if my lack of undergrad will be a barrier. Before I start writing my proposal, can anyone advise how their institutions would react to an application like this. Particularly interested in Russell group unis. I just want to know if it would be a straight No. Thankyou!

Be very wary. For funded it would probably be a straight no. That means if anyone says yes fast, they're probably a predatory supervisor after your money. If someone gets back to you with a lot of additional questions and seems to be really thinking it through, it's possibly a goer. I would want to see writing and publications from your masters and probably give you a viva on them if I were serious about you, because I'd worry about the strength of your critical thinking skills, rather than subject matter knowledge. Was your masters from a highly regarded university?

I think you’d have to find a decent academic to be your supervisor first and see if they’d allow this. It can be pretty costly, depending on your subject, but also the university charges per annum fees too. I did my PhD at a Russell university and subsequently worked in research for most of my career and some fees can be in excess of £35k so check this first. You could also check to see if there are any funding routes for eg women in business (not sure if there is such a thing!) who could help / pay fees or if the university has a scholarship scheme for PhD students

@TheVeryAngryBanana not particularly prestigious uni. Thankyou!

@StormGazingthankyou that’s super helpful too!

Why do you want to do a PhD? It is NOT a good investment in career terms. It won’t boost your career outside academia and jobs inside academia are v badly paid and v hard to find.

if you are entirely doing it because you enjoy it and have money to burn, that’s up to you. But it is very different to an MSc. Much more lone working and being self directed. The most important thing is to find a good supportive supervisor who would take you on.

you could consider doing a second MSc to broaden your skills and show stronger academic credentials. 2 MSc at distinction would be a decent step towards making up for the lack of BSc.

No UG & an MSc from a university with a weak research reputation? I'd say your chances of an RG PhD are slim. You'd really have to blow them out of the water with your proposal, or as others say, you may end up with a predatory supervisor.

My field (STEM) requires PhDs pretty much as standard, so it was a good investment in career terms for me, but PP's make good points re considering the value of a research degree. It's a big, expensive undertaking, don't underestimate it. Especially at an institution where research is a strength. They will want to keep up the quality and you will be pushed much harder doing a post grad at a research intensive university. You need to be prepared for that.

Don't mean to dampen your enthusiasm but I agree with the others. Even if you have a research proposal that is stellar, the competition at the top Universities means that you won't get a look in with no undergrad degree and an MSc from a university with a weak research reputation (in fact the latter might be the reason that you got admitted to the MSc at all, top Universities won't admit a student to a Master's without an Undergrad degree). And, part-time PhD students are in any case not attractive to most top Universities, as the chances of completion are significantly lower than for full-time ones.

Most academics I know are extremely uncomfortable with taking on self-funded students - particularly home ones (extremely rich foreign students are different). I really wouldn’t even consider doing a self-funded PhD.

If you are self funded and have a reasonably clear idea I would approach academics at Russell group unis. They are looking for talented mature people who are self motivated and self directed. Academia is a funny old game - you need a bit of a thick skin but believe in yourself. Our job is really talent spotting and any one motivated to go around the long way and is not a 22 year old good at passing exams and uses AI, deserves a second look. Balanced against all of this is the importance of you choosing the right supervisor. Well done so far and good luck in the future. (Stormgazing advice is good )

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but having seen that it wasn't a high ranked university, I think you will be wasting your time and money, and best case scenario is you have a very miserable experience and just scrape through. You effectively only have 1 year of experience of higher education at lower standard. You're very unlikely to have the research and critical thinking skills that will allow you to complete a phd. I'm not saying you're not capable of learning those skills, but they're skills that need to be learnt and it takes most students a good 3 years full time to learn them. No one does it instinctively without practice.

Instead, would you consider doing a bachelors, maybe at a better university with a foundation course first? I think you'll learn more and get more out of it. A good bachelors should include a substantial research component, and you can always go beyond the basic reading right from the beginning.

Hi OP. In light of responses above, you might want to rethink your focus on Russell Group institutions. If you can find a supportive supervisor at a post-92, the lack of first degree wouldn’t necessarily be a dealbreaker. However, as others have said, a self-funded PhD is a huge and expensive undertaking wherever you go, so think very carefully before jumping in. But don’t be discouraged if it really it is what you want to do for whatever reason (and you don’t have to disclose here btw).

What is a 'predatory supervisor' in this context? I'm in the UK (RG) and we don't get any money ourselves if we take a PhD student. Nor is it likely to be very prestigious for us and we get about six hours allowed for the whole year to do it, so why is it predatory?

I tend not to take self-funded students; in fact, I don't unless they are from a developing country, have all the great UG/Masters but are struggling to obtain funding in the UK. I would be worried in this context, OP, unless I saw a sample of writing or something that told me you'd be an amazing student. I have once taken someone with only a Masters and it's a gamble for sure.

I'd also ask why do you want a PhD? Would you rather write a book, a blog or create content on your topic? PhDs are hard work, quite often boring and everyone gets very stressed doing them and it won't transform your career unless you want to be an academic. I would write a book if you want to put your ideas into the world but don't want to pay huge fees to write something that will inevitably be rather niche. It may be you prefer the PhD, but it's something to think through as it's not the only way to express your ideas.

I was super busy at work yesterday and came back to so many responses, all of which I really appreciate thankyou!

I think it’s a no go, which is fine. As to my reasons, I am just really fascinated by what is happening in my area and how AI is changing some really fundamental assumptions about the way work is done and what we will do in the future, I work in a very Ai forward org.

I have no ambitions to be an academic and plan to retire in the next 5 years and travel. Thankyou all!

Not true. I am a self funded PhD candidate at an RG university and I know a lot of fellow PhDers who are self funded, none of whom are foreign students, myself included.

I have very recent experience of supervising PhD students at an RG university and I disagree with some of the advice on this thread. If you are planning to self-fund and are doing this for reasons of intellectual enquiry rather than wanting an academic career, I'd say go for it! Whether or not you did an undergraduate degree several decades ago is not that relevant in my view. The fact that you have recently completed a Masters and are lit up by your subject is much more important. I agree with those saying finding the right supervisor is key. I would send out enquiries to a few potential supervisors. You may not hear back from some of them - don't take that personally. Most academics are overwhelmed and not on top of their email. But the right supervisor will resonate with your topic and get back to you. They should then be able to help you shape the proposal and make it PhD-shaped before you submit your application.

Best of luck! Some of the best and most interesting PhD students I have worked with have been at your life stage (also my life stage!).

Save your money and use it for retirement. Or write a self funded book - it’ll be cheaper.

I am an academic and have worked at prestigious universities including Russell Group. If you had a good masters, a solid proposal and could provide high quality writing samples I would be happy to supervise this. Like some PPs, I would discourage someone from doing a self-funded PhD if they wanted an academic career, especially with a non-standard background (though university management would probably be happy enough to encourage us to take their money) because there's no guarantee it would lead to the desired outcome. But someone with enough money and time to do a PhD for the fun of it would be fine.

I would add that for a mature student, a recent masters would be better evidence of ability to do the PhD than a very old first degree. We do sometimes admit retired people to do self-funded PhDs who have a degree from 30+ years ago, but not a masters, and often their expectations of what a PhD looks like and what academic research looks like are a bit unrealistic.

I know thisn't quite the same, but do you post about your thoughts on AI on LinkedIn? Sounds trivial, but posts about AI which I've done on there get amazing traction and lots of interaction, and that way you could feel you were being part of the discussion taking your field forward.

Sounds a bit rubbish compared with doing a PhD, but I think the choice isn't the slog of many years of a PhD or saying nothing about it ever, what about posting on LinkedIn, publishing a Substack blog, writing a short book and self-publishing it, making social media content on it. I've noticed quite a few experts doing this and not all are monetising it, it's more about being part of the conversation.

Honestly, unless it is for the personal achievement don’t bother. I got my PhD in Cardiff on w Wellcome Trust Programme and generally self-funded PhDs were looked down on by professors. I don't agree with it but the mentality is “you are not good enough to get funding”

@cucumber4745 As PPs have said, I think this depends on the subject area. In mine, self-funding was the norm (as funding so thin on the ground).

@Fernsarethebestplantsthankyou for your lovely response. I hear what you are saying about LinkedIn, but it’s not for me. I will reflect on other ways I can explore the trends I am seeing.