Any social science academics around?

[Piggywaspushed]

Hi all, and sorry to barge into your space but ,for a range of reasons, I didn't want to put this in HE.

I'd like to understand exactly how bad an undergrad essay needs to be to outright fail, without having plagiarised or failed to comply with word limits. There is, of course, a story attached to this. I have read through quite a few threads and am 100% confident that none of you is at my DS's uni/his tutor.

I'm not agitating for evidence for an appeal ; I am just a bit confounded by a whole process and wanted some expert input. My DF is a retired lecturer and I have his thoughts but he is in marketing and hasn't marked undergrad work for about 10 years now.

If you can lend me your ears and thoughts please let me know! I obviously won't add lots of chapter and verse wastefully unless someone responds.

[Piggywaspushed]

I actually saw that with my own eyes! His bibliography is about a page.

[QuebecBagnet]

@Piggywaspushed

Yes, but the plan is an official mark, too.

So... to be clear since none of you do appear to be the tutor!

There are three marked components:

Seminar - 80 % not resat so not changed
Plan (God, original mark was 5% when he first failed!) - now shown as 65 last week, and now 56
Essay (showed 56 last week and now shows 38 - but should not have been visible) .

The essay is worth 65% of the overall mark for the module , the plan is worth20% and the seminar the rest. I may have got that last bit a bit wrong in weightings.

Even if it stays at 38% he will pass the module then.

[Piggywaspushed]

I really hope so, and I hope he is right that this gets him a 2:2 overall.

Thank you .

[QuebecBagnet]

@Piggywaspushed

I really hope so, and I hope he is right that this gets him a 2:2 overall.

Thank you .

The resit board I believe is 6th Sept, overall degree classification should be out about a week later. Because for the non resit people they’re out on the 31st on Runway.

[Piggywaspushed]

Yes, I think that's about right. Overall result around 15th.

[MassiveTit]

I just wanted to pop in to say that my partner teaches the same subject as me at a research intensive university whereas I am at a low tariff one (think top ten vs bottom ten). We often ask each other's advice on bits and pieces to do with assessment and most of the time we are pretty much aligned. If anything, he thinks my students are marked too harshly. The only difference seems to be in the bare fails or borderline passes. We have lots of those whereas he doesn't deal with them so much. I don't doubt there are difference standards across institutions (I AL in 2 other places for cash so I know to do the switch) but I think it is a bit of a misconception that low tariff institutions mark easily. One thing which really influences the marks of his students is how much they ask for feedback and support. My aim next year is to support my students to have some entitlement, his is to ensure his have less!!

[RampantIvy]

One thing which really influences the marks of his students is how much they ask for feedback and support.

Am I right in thinking that the more support and feedback a student gets the lower the mark, especially for a dissertation?

[QuebecBagnet]

@RampantIvy

One thing which really influences the marks of his students is how much they ask for feedback and support.

Am I right in thinking that the more support and feedback a student gets the lower the mark, especially for a dissertation?

No. I’m fairly sure the previous poster means that the students who ask for support are the ones who get higher marks. Because they’re the ones who stay on track regarding the assessment brief and get pointers like “have you thought about exploring x”. The ones who don’t get support are more likely to go off track.

[SudocremOnEverything]

IME the students who seek most support fall into two categories: the ones who are doing well and want feedback on the ideas they already have and the ones who haven’t done any work and want you to basically write it for them. The group in between mostly don’t seek support even though it would help them.

There’s nothing you can generally do to help the really needy ones who’ve not attended any classes and resent the expectation they should have any input into their assignments. When I was working in a post-92, this group constituted at least 1/3 of every cohort. When I worked at a very highly ranked research intensive university, the group who were seeking ever more feedback were much more likely to be high achievers who were working themselves into an anxious breakdown.

[Piggywaspushed]

To be fair, all DS asked was ' is this title acceptable? ' and 'would you mind quickly looking over the plan to check it is along the right lines?'. I don't think that falls in the overly needy camp! I think he could do with being more needy/ assertive / interactive and he might not have got in this pickle in the first place.

[consideringachange]

Unless there is additional rubric about the essay specifically having to be a passing mark to pass the module, it sounds as if his module mark will be a pass even if the 38 stands. So he should be ok. It is quite harsh imo to give 38 for a resit capped at 40 -- in these circs most would give a lower mark if they felt it was really a fail so it doesn't look so much like a near miss. (Marks below 40 are quite subjective ime in most programs which don't see many of them. E.g. markers might agree it's a fail but one give 38 and one 25.) But 38 might also be a generous way in this case of indicating that the essay was a fail without giving a mark low enough for him to fail the module overall, once the various elements are weighted.

[Piggywaspushed]

Thank you.

Honestly, it seems a very low mark and does seem like someone else gave it 55, but, so long as he passes, it really doesn't matter in the long run.

[caringcarer]

Going off at a tangent and not keeping focus upon question set.

[HilarityEnsues]

We have all fails double-marked by the module moderator (a second member of staff that checks a sample) for this reason.

I don't often fail students as they would have to have a major misunderstanding or completely miss the point of the essay, or it be half done or something, and that's not particularly usual.

To get 55 they could write a crap essay with not great referencing but on topic and with the right type of content in it, just at a descriptive level.

I'm at a RG uni.

Are you sure he would fail, even with 38% if it's only 65% of the mark?

We would not fail a student over an entire degree over two % points, the piece would be second or even third marked if this were to occur. I've had a Masters dissertation marked by two additional markers last year when it failed and it was found to pass, so two out of three markers passed it.

Not sure I've helped, I guess norms vary across institutions, students do fail modules quite a bit but they are condoned, you would have to fail more than one to fail the entire degree, I'm pretty sure.

[Piggywaspushed]

No, thanks, that is helpful. It's a bit reassuring that at least serious conversations would be had. It is the only module he has ever failed so I would like to think that would be a consideration.

What you describe as a 55 type essay is a bit like what his is , probably.

[Piggywaspushed]

Just to pick up on your final para hilarity, it definitely is the case at DS's institution that one failed module is a failed degree. Gulp.

[QuebecBagnet]

@Piggywaspushed

Just to pick up on your final para hilarity, it definitely is the case at DS's institution that one failed module is a failed degree. Gulp.

It might be for that course, but not for the institution.

[Piggywaspushed]

No, whole institution. I looked it up...

[QuebecBagnet]

@Piggywaspushed

No, whole institution. I looked it up...

Dd goes there, her bf goes there. Her bf failed a module and passed the course.

[HilarityEnsues]

I really doubt that a student would be failed for this, but I don't know the institution. Ours has a different system, compulsory modules can't be failed, but options can and you can take credits until you pass, we have students who failed one year who then do the same the following year, if it's agreed with the committee, I had one who had a baby in the year and repeated the following year.

I just think an overall fail of degree would be disproportionate and unlikely, but I don't know what you can do to influence this. I wouldn't be happy with one marker deciding someone's overall pass/fail of degree like this, indeed it simply couldn't happen at our institution and I'd be surprised if it did elsewhere. All fails would be scrutinised very very carefully, there is no motivation to fail students.

Have you got support from the Students Guild or elsewhere?

[Piggywaspushed]

@QuebecBagnet

Dd goes there, her bf goes there. Her bf failed a module and passed the course.

Not sure how you know where this is but if you do, that's interesting . And a bit harsh if there isn't an institution wide policy?

He should find out soon. But ,if he does end up falling at this very last hurdle, it is curtains for him. The sums are on his side.

[burnoutbabe]

I assume it's not an accredited degree like law for example? They often have different rules to everything else to make it a qualifying degree.

[Piggywaspushed]

No, not accredited. Yes, I wasn't looking at the rules for those. Just a standard soc sci degree.

[titchy]

He could repeat the year, or the module if he's within the allowed number of attempts. It doesn't have to be curtains.

[Piggywaspushed]

This is the repeat titchy.