When do you think universities will open?

[googlepoodle]

I would think they would be definitely be working to a September deadlines for the new academic year.
But do we think any sooner? I am professional services staff and currently working from home.

Hello all, I've been reading this thread because I have just been appointed as a lecturer. I have been working at the University as a visiting lecturer but I have just been appointed a permanent member of staff. I can't start until September, so I'm taking it that they imagine things will be back by then.

I agree 1963 i think things may change faster In the next couple of months than we perhaps think, which is partly why ive been surprised at reports that universities are assuming it will have to be online in september (im paraphrasing, i know they’re not as definite as that).

Particularly with increased testing, and track and trace - even if its not 100% effective it may give people enough reassurance to start up again.
In the past some universities (well, two) made it against the rules to go home at weekends - i am usually a supporter of students who find it easier to manage if they go home, but maybe it would be worth trying to discourage that a bit for the first term?

I think the difference between the open uni price (18) and ‘campus’ unis (30) will be a real issue. Throw in the fact that you can also do cheaper German degrees online I think unis really have to spend money and brilliance on getting the campuses open for sept/Oct.

Freshers week etc. Yes an issue but some will be far more cautious than before and may keep some social distancing habits. Not all of course!

Now we all know symptoms I would hope students would self isolate quickly. I know many would not know they had symptoms but compared to Feb when we had no idea we are all far more aware now.

On a positive it doesn’t really start to end of September which buys a bit more time and could possibly be delayed with fewer holidays.

You do realise that a massive amount of work is done over the summer to prepare for the Sept intake?. Of course by academic staff but also by professional services.
Some of this work starts around now, particularly organisation of induction processes as well as accommodation allocation, visa application support and admin etc etc . Some of it needs to be done on campus if students arent going to arrive in Sept to chaos. How do we even begin preparing for that unless we know if we are teaching face to face or online or both?

It is slightly easier to deal with continuing students but new ones need a lot of help, support and organisation. Think about the work involved in organising induction weeks, it takes months to do.this every year.

I am.anticipating very very long days of work this summer as when a decision about what we do in sort is made, we will have to fit in months of work into a few weeks Also some staff will have to go in for some tasks so the offices will need to be open

I am.pretty certain that will be followed by redundancies later in the academic year when we see how numbers have been affected. Probably by Christmas or eary next year

Yes it will be an enormous amount of work, but similar to many other jobs which are also in chaos. None of it is ideal.

I think the difference between the open uni price (18) and ‘campus’ unis (30) will be a real issue. Throw in the fact that you can also do cheaper German degrees online I think unis really have to spend money and brilliance on getting the campuses open for sept/Oct.

But there are no student loans available for international degrees, so these have to be paid for upfront -- while having little recognition amongst UK employers.

OU degrees are designed primarily for returners to education as opposed to 18 year olds finishing A levels. While they are evidently accredited as level 4-6 qualifications, I don't think they are a s good substitute for all degrees. I appreciate though that many 18 year olds and their families won't really know this, so may choose to go down this route, just as many don't realise that all degrees don't have equal value.

On a positive it doesn’t really start to end of September which buys a bit more time and could possibly be delayed with fewer holidays.

Fewer holidays? FFS have you any idea of the strain academics are under at the moment, scrambling to convert their courses online, dealing with new technology and platforms, trying to support understandably distressed students (many of whom are completely disengaged) and trying to ensure that learning outcomes are met so that students will pass the year? That’s before the marking deluge which is about to come in, and in many cases also looking after and homeschooling their own children.

That you would blithely say “oh it’ll be fine, academics can just take fewer holidays” this summer is so tone-deaf, it beggars belief. No academics have the three month long summer imagined by many who don’t work in the sector (I note you work in publishing). Most academics do well to get 2-3 weeks break and many struggle to switch off completely. A break this summer will be absolutely essential to everyone’s wellbeing, given the horrendous pressures of the last few months, and I’m glad that my university is encouraging all staff to take their annual leave as normal.

I think German and Dutch degrees are very valued by employers.

OU doesn’t do all courses so that is a factor. In academic publishing if someone applies to me for a job (hopefully!) I will be equally impressed with an OU English or history degree as one from many other unis. Possibly more so knowing what this cohort has been through.

In publishing we get 5 weeks holiday plus banking holidays etc.

Re: courses like nursing, physio, paramedics etc that involve placements

DD was due to do a hospital placement this term which obviously won't now happen. She seemed to think that the missing weeks might be done during future holidays but this would also impact on lecturers (already massively affected) holidays as they have to oversee the placements.

In publishing we get 5 weeks holiday plus banking holidays etc

We get six. Not a great deal of difference. Certainly not the 22 weeks that most students and people outside the sector seem to believe.

We have just been told to prepare for online only delivery in the autumn term.

What joy!

In publishing we get 5 weeks holiday plus banking holidays etc.

Lucky you, and I bet you get to take them. As an academic I supposedly get six weeks holiday. I haven't taken any so far this year, and there is no way now that I will get to book any before the leave year ends. In normal years most of my leave is booked so that I can be left to do my research in peace.

It's really tedious on a board that was set up for academics to talk about their jobs to have to keep countering ignorant points by people who clearly want to vent their dislike for academics. I don't go onto Legal Issues and needle lawyers.

I am based in the student experience side (without outing myself too much!) And I have no idea how it is going to look. We are looking at a virtual freshers fair, virtual events but that will be hard to get engagement. Also our income has been severely eroded due to our income making clubs, bars and outlets all being closed and I can't see those being opened until at least January. This will have a massive effect of extra curricular clubs and societies as we will just not have the money to offer what we normally do.

It is going to be a very different student experience next academic year.

@GCAcademic I don’t think anyone has been having a go at academics - perhaps without thought one poster suggested shorter holidays. I’ve got enormous admiration for academics but moved out to PS because I didn’t want the crazy hours. I’m much happier - still doing something very academic but get to take holidays and work regular hours.
The strain on academic colleagues is enormous at the minute and mainly so because the working culture was so poor before the pandemic.

Phonelock is that online only as a ‘just in case’ or as ‘this is what we’re going to do’. If the latter, is there a forecast impact on student numbers? I wonder if universities are underestimating the impact on drop outs/non-starters, or Alternatively they do know, but think there is no other option ( though not sure why that would be the case).

I’m not sure if January is better than september for opening clubs - isnt january bang in the middle of winter flu?

Sounds as though there is a lot of internal pressure In govt to get contact tracing going now. Whether or not it works (and i know there are varying views) it may change the climate in terms of lifting restrictions. So opening physically but perhaps in a ‘new normal’ way (no freshers week, reduced numbers of physical lectures) may not be too unrealistic.

I wasn't meaning you googlepoodle. The poster who suggested shorter "holidays" has been consistently needling throughout this thread. I just think that coming onto a board set up for people who work in universities, when you do not and when you clearly have no idea what the job involves is poor form

@googlepoodle

And on other threads saying the same about schools holidays as well...

I have accumulated around eight weeks of leave for this year, I should work part time but haven’t actually been able to work less than full time for since January. In term time this was deliberate then there was just too much to do. I haven’t had any annual leave this year, having worked through the spring break preparing my own online exams and organising the preparation and checking of exams for the whole department. I’m looking now at around 100 hours of marking (usually measured in feet of script books and reports but all online this year). Then a summer of producing new teaching materials, which I actually find exciting because I love teaching. However, if I don’t get a break soon I will be broken.

As far a I know 3 of our nearest universities are planning for remote learning September to January in the hope they are back to normal in January.

I’m at college and our head lecturer told us that yesterday.

Ah, yes, "part-time" working in academia. I don't know anyone who has managed to go part-time without working full-time hours. Perhaps the dubious attraction of this arrangement is that you get to work full time instead of double full time hours?

I have had to cancel the AL I had booked over the summer (to attend an event overseas which has now been cancelled anyway) but I suppose that probably works out ok - for my institution - as we will be flat-out over the summer anyway with marking, writing a brand-new curriculum and organising some way of welcoming 100s of new students 'virtually'.

Oh, and since I'm in a healthcare subject there will be the tiny matter of supporting all our current students the whole time anyway as they are in paid NHS placements all summer. They don't get months off in the summer and therefore nor do we.

I've had two days off this year so far. So please don't talk to me about 'having fewer holidays'.

Our university has said that we should take 40-60% of annual leave before the end of July. Hollow laughter all round.

Ah, yes, "part-time" working in academia. I don't know anyone who has managed to go part-time without working full-time hours.

My husband wants to retire early and one of the suggested options is phased retirement. In effect, part time for one or two years.

His response was "Sod that! I don't know anyone who has managed to go part-time without working full-time hours plus. Why would I want to get paid three days money for five days work?"

I have two due to start uni this year. They will both defer if they can't physically start on time (because of the extra-curricular stuff). I know a lot of their friends feel the same. Next year is going to be interesting.

My DS is the same. He's not remotely interested in going in September if the Unis aren't fully operational as normal. There's no way he wants to go and end up stuck in his room doing online learning or watching lectures on his computer screen. For him, the whole point is the full leaving home experience, making new friends, joining the clubs & societies, exploring a new city etc etc. He'll either defer for a year or will not bother at all and get a job instead.

The Unis are really going to struggle with very low intakes in September as it is. My neighbour works at our local Uni and they've already seen the number of foreign applicants for this September fall through the floor (they have a Chinese outpost and usually get a few thousand Chinese students each year - this year apparently it's barely a handful who've "firmed" despite the usual level of applications and offers before Covid!).