So what do we think will happen with the REF?

[OhBuggerandArse]

Has anyone heard anything more recently than the Friday 13th(!) update? Our institution is keeping up the 'business as usual' narrative, but I can't really see how that will be sustainable.

3-6 month postponement (depending on how long the shutdowns last) is my guess. If the situation goes on for a long time, perhaps movement by an entire year. I would be surprised if the process is completely cancelled.

I'm sure you're right that it's unlikely to be cancelled altogether. I hope if they do go for a postponement though that they'll pick a decent length of time straight away - surely the model of what's happened in schools should tell them that it's better to take the hard decision quickly? A year would make recalculating all the deadlines much easier.

It's hard to see how it can go ahead as planned. Personally (completely selfishly) I'd rather they cancelled it than extended the deadline by a year. I'd rather have months of work go to waste than have another year of pointless meetings and internal reviews.

Postponed:

www.ref.ac.uk/publications/further-update-on-coronavirus-covid-19-and-ref-timetable/

Including

"3. This means that the submission deadline on 27 November 2020 will no longer apply, and we will announce a new submission deadline no later than eight months prior to the deadline. We will ensure full allowance is made for the impact of coronavirus across affected areas of submissions. The funding bodies recognise the significant effort that has been invested so far by institutions in preparations for the current REF cycle. In view of this, and following the Minister’s advice to universities on supporting their staff, the REF staff census date (31 July 2020) remains unchanged. However, we are at an early stage of understanding the full impact on universities as they respond to calls to support the national effort in the face of COVID-19."

They haven't announced a new deadline for submission, nor for nominations for further Sub-Panel members.

This suggests to me that they have no idea.

But I doubt we'll get a cancellation ... except that it makes economic sense to cancel it. When I think of my hours dedicated to REF bureaucracy, which could be used to, I don't know, maybe teach more students?

Various analyses of REF results have shown that if they distributed QR funding in alignment with UKRI funding, the effect would be pretty much the same.

The thing I'm most concerned about just now is the deadline for impact to have happened - we have a number of pathways to impact running right up until the July cut-off, and they are going to be properly messed up if they don't shift that one.

I don't think they could ever cancel, it would be too clear an admission of how pointless the whole thing is. And in the mean time our internal processes keep on rolling along...

I presume that the publication deadline for outputs hasn’t changed? Otherwise that could have a serious impact on those who were relying on their work coming out early in the next cycle rather than this one. It would also create a load more work for institutions who would need to read and internally rank new post-Nov 2020 work

I haven’t heard of any changes to output deadlines either, @Pota2. Mind you, the deadline could move while we stick with whatever outputs we’ve already started to review. It would just give us more time to review them and finalise the list.

Latest from REF2021:

www.ref.ac.uk/faqs/

I think there's a hint that output/impact dates will be shifted.

Thanks @FlockofGulls. It could be read as if some sort of hybrid model could occur, with a proportion of outputs being allowed beyond December.

I think that'd be very important for impact cases & activity.

More concerned about KEF and TEF. Given they are averages over three years this is going to have a lasting impact.

Our institution is still asking for all impact to be complete by July. That should be feasible but writing up the submission with no childcare will be more difficult!

Given they are averages over three years this is going to have a lasting impact

OTOH, we'll all be affected by COVID-19. And let's hope our students are sensible & thoughtful about the NSS. Although given some delusional self- and peer evaluations I'm receiving from undergrads, I wonder about some of them!

Let’s hope and pray that this is the death knell to KEF and TEF. One can only dream the same about the NSS,

Interesting statement from Emma Hardy, the shadow universities minister. Wishful thinking, I fear, but maybe admits the possibility of different approaches in a way that we haven't seen enough of in political contexts (rather than academics themselves despairing).

www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-ref-2014-2020-4-shadow-minister-says-ref-serves-no-purpose/?fbclid=IwAR0bJbHhREDbnA8DDLIPVuSNmLLV0qdpVR6WEXXhxPGAq7iesJUgL3DVx-E

Webinar on Tue 21st Apr which "will cover issues relating to the timing of the new submission deadline, and the broad approach to taking account of the effects of Covid-19 on impact case studies."

www.ref.ac.uk/guidance/training-and-events-materials/webinar-and-survey-initial-views-on-ref-timetable/

to be followed by an online survey.

Yeah, I've even signed up for that sad

And thanks for that link to Emma Hardy's statement. We can only hope fervently pray

Thanks for the webinar sign-up link - I've registered...

Did anyone else join the webinar? How did you feel about it?

A bit horrified about the possible options for individually applied-for impact deadlines - I think the same deadlines for everyone would be more helpful, and it's not like those who are all finished up would really be troubled by having to wait a bit longer to submit.

Some depts in our institution are very worried by a delay to the funding allocation so they are all for as short a delay as possible, but for us I think lack of time to finish up and prepare is more of a concern.

They were quite open to individuals with an interest, not just institutional representatives, filling in their consultation form - I wonder how much mileage there would be in encouraging as many people as possible to fill it in? Should the UCU use its voice (if it has any credibility left)? Or the critical universities studies people? There's not much time for it, so it would be good for people to get planning strategy asap.

Did they say anything about changing output deadlines?

They were just discussing impact and overLl submission deadlines. It seemed to me that output deadlines would stay at 31-12-20.

And I agree about the horrors of a case by case mitigation for impact. Huge workload for both academics and colleagues on the REF panels.

Lots to think about. I gave to write my learned society’s response. Bang goes time to finish writing a chapter!

I think case by case mitigation could lead to a world of problems - how do you ensure fairness and transparency across all review panels?

I certainly don't want the submission to be staggered, it worry me just how much time pressure this would put on everyone involved. But I do think the informed funding date may sway a lot of institutional responses.

From the sounds of it there may be more of these webinars, which is great for inclusion but could also just lead to delays as decision are never made.