Toddler won’t wear waterproof / raincoat

[Harrieteve]

I know there are a lot of these threads already! Normally I totally subscribe to “bring it with you they will wear it when they’re ready”. My toddler isn’t a tantrumy kid but he’s quite sensitive to “new” things and he’s had a vendetta about waterproof coats for probably a year. He wears those wool fleece things and we managed with that last winter when he was less mobile. He’s now almost 3.

However he does forest school now and goes out for rainy walks a lot with his nursery and the manager called me today and basically said it makes their nursery look bad and the kids can’t be seen without coats not to mention a full day of forest school without a waterproof is a bit of a stretch as it gets wetter / colder. We sent him in with 3 options and the nursery tried three different members of staff and just about coaxed him into a puddlesuit but he said he wanted to do a wee and took it off. We tried some tough love this morning and forced him into one and he screamed and screamed and took it off.

I’m thinking we can try taking him shopping to pick one out but we’ve tried a few types so I’m not holding out much hope. Any good books? Do I story board it out? Any thoughts? I know this seems RIDICULOUS.

There are some things you can force a child to do. It might not be pleasant but you can.

There are other things you can’t. You can put clothes on them but can’t insist they keep them on. You can’t force them to eat or drink or sleep either.

Turning it into a battle of wills that you’ll lose is a bad idea!

Its not a negotiation though. Put on your raincoat. I'm not discussing this with you. Its how the world works.

It isn’t, not where clothes are concerned. If he just keeps taking it off you’re a bit stuck.

Forcing him to the point of hysteria won't achieve anything because he will just keep pulling it off or ripping it and possibly hurting others too. I think you'll need to approach it differently. Maybe tell him you are going somewhere he really likes but he must wear his raincoat. Bring the few options you have. Make it really clear, first raincoat then playground. Then when you get there and it's time to put it on tell him he can't go in until he puts it on. This might trigger a massive tantrum but just sit it out until he calms himself and he hopefully will make the decision himself to put it on. If he continues to refuse and you have gone through the cycle a few times then just leave and take him home. Empathise with him, I know you are sad about the playground but we must wear our coats if you want to go. Then try again another day. And maybe another. It could take time if he is very stubborn. Hopefully you'll get the message through eventually. The issue then will be what if it's somewhere he doesn't really want to go anyway? If you can get the habit in a positive rewarding way then maybe he will forget about his refusal and just get on with it. Fwiw I had a child who refused socks and hats, we worked very hard on the socks and shoes that winter and I just didn't feel the need for the hat battle and just let him be hatless. Possibly I was judged for that but I went through hell for weeks just getting the child to not be barefoot in winter. You have to choose battles

Another idea OP, there are lots of social stories out there but you don't need to spend time or money. Just do one yourself. Make up a story about a boy who couldn't go somewhere and was very sad because he didn't like his coat and then tried it anyway and and lots of fun. Draw pictures of a a kid that looks like him and of the coat, you don't need to be good at drawing. If you had time you could use a photo of him and a real photo of the coat but you really don't need to. There are loads of social stories online, they are a really useful tool. Look up a few and adapt. Also YouTube videos of kids wearing similar coats and having fun

I don't know about that.

If you decide that you can't force a toddler to eat, drink or sleep then you are going to risk their life. At some point, you will force them and they will do it whether or not they scream the house down.

Nobody would give a child autonomy over these things. They don't have a choice.

So yes, like it or lump it, we do have to force them to do things that they might not want to do but we know that they just have to do them, because we know what's best for them.

Well, at least I know what is good for my three year old and, even, dare I say it, I know better than him and that's why I'm in charge of him.

His need to make a choice does not ever trump my need to do what is best for him.

Hello All,

I really really appreciate the wide ranging responses and thoughtful comments you’ve all shared with lots of different opinions and approaches. It’s definitely given me lots of ideas to work through.

I think for now it’s a shame to assume he can’t participate in forest school or go outside so we need to try and work on some sort of raincoat. We took him to Tesco today and with a bit of explicit bribery which isn’t usually my vibe he did choose and try on a coat - kind of puffa style and not too obviously waterproof in exchange for a bucket and ball he wanted. He wore it for 5-10 minutes round the shop without any screaming. When we got home we talked through lots of the day about wearing coats, granny wearing coats, how we’ve got him a special coat for the rain and why we wear different layers in different weather etc. He put on a gilet he’s never worn before for a walk with granny and then this evening at bedtime told me about the green coat purchase and that he was going to take it to his nursery. Praying this is hopefully a bit of a breakthrough. Tomorrow I think it’s raining so we’ll hide the soft fleece and see if we can get him out doing something he wants to do in the coat. I think that’s our best chance for getting him happy to do it for nursery. Have also ordered some waterproof trousers to try that.

I think for him the forcing and extreme pressure is just not the right approach. He’s naturally quite an obedient child and I don’t think he’s being deliberately difficult so whilst I know it’s our role to keep them safe ideally if we can work with him on it I think we’re going to end up better off. However I’m going to try and maintain some firm boundaries on it where we can so it shows him we can’t do fun things etc if we don’t wear it.

Going to try some books and homemade storyboards too. Thanks so much 🙏

@PenelopeShadow tou cannot force a child to eat. Trust me. It’s one of the main factors in eating disorders - it’s so hard to keep people alive if they are hellbent on not eating. Because you cannot force them. I don’t even mean you shouldn’t - you quite literally cannot.

The coat isn’t quite the same but I don’t see what there is to be gained in wrestling / forcing a child into a coat and have them remove it, repeat ad infinitum. It makes it more of an issue and if you do the ‘well we won’t go out then’ you’re punishing yourself!

The outdoor space is open to the classroom so children can go out as they please - each are is staffed. The Forest school is a separate area staffed by a Forest school teacher. Half a class at a time are in there. Remaining children stay in Nursery with FS staff.

What worked with my son was my mother in law buying him one with his favourite cartoon on! It’s so garish but he loves it and wears it so I try not care 🤣

Yes, I can see that with teenagers and adults but not with a three year old,

Each to their own but if my toddler refused to eat or drink to the point where they drove themselves to death's door-I would try everything-no matter how brutal. I would try and force it down their throat-some of it would stick and, if that failed, take them to hospital for tube feeding.

Horrible-yes-but I would do anything to stop them dying from thirst or hunger.

I would be helped in this though by the belief that my toddler had no agency in deciding if he wanted to starve himself to death. I am his mother and I know best. He has no authority or choice in the matter.

I seriously can't believe that I am in a minority in this. Maybe I am but even if it is just me and every other poster would let their three year old make the choice to starve themselves, well then so be it. T

hey don't even understand the consequence of their actions because they don't know that food and water keeps them alive and they have no concept of death.

I shall be in an exclusive club of one and happy to be in it.

In the same way, they don't freeze to death and if I say they are wearing a coat in the snow-they are wearing it even if I sellotape them into into it! 😂In the same way, that I don't let them wander out of the front door or decide not to wear a seatbelt. Scream the house down if they must.

They have no agency in decisions about their health or well being, I am their mother and I do and I will exercise that authority and that agency for their benefit.

I would agree with taking them to be tube fed if it’s life and death! I agree with the other poster though that you can’t force them to eat, that would be a choking hazard and not possible.

I have forced antibiotics down his throat when necessary which is horrendous. Point being though that I save that for the situations that call for it and for me this doesn’t need the same rigidity of approach.

I totally get him. They’re so loud!?! When you walk and move your arms they crinkle constantly??? I hated them when I was little.

can you get him a quiet one??

If I can get a tablet down a cat's throat-sly bastards- I can get mush down a toddler's but that's my view-it's not yours and that's fair enough. @Harrieteve

My main point is-and it started with your boy's coat-is that I do not give my toddler any authority or agency over his health or well being. My word is law there. No-one cares more than me-his mother.

He can choose what toy he wants to play with, what colour wellingtons he wants to wear and what biscuit he might like but he doesn't decide what is good or bad for him. That would be my job, even when he disagrees with me.

Sadly for him, in this, I totally ignore his desires. I reject the idea that a toddler has authority over his own health and, if that's just me, then so be it.

That sounds like a positive step forward op! Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Instead of keeping the new green coat hung up or in the cupboard, maybe leave it sitting out all the time - in the living room or wherever he spends most of his time. Might help him get used to it 🙂

What if every child in the class wanted the teacher to carry their coat until they wanted to wear it? A nursery teacher can have as many as 13 three year olds in their ratio they are responsible for. Should this teacher be expected to carry 13 coats? Just because the children don’t feel like wearing one just yet?

OP I wouldn’t carry on with all this arsing around trying to think of creative inventive ways to get him to wear a coat. The weather is turning and to go out to fun things, he simply needs to wear a coat and to do it when he’s told so. That’s part of the expectations that will be normal when he starts school. I would have the stand off with him that the coat goes on and it stays on or we don’t go to <insert exciting activity he wants to do>

The same way I would not arse around trying to get him to take medicine, brush his teeth, wear sun screen, or wear shoes outdoors. He simply has to do it. There are plenty of other areas in life that you can give him some autonomy and choice over, but he doesn’t need autonomy over everything. He actually needs to know that some things are decided by adults and are not up for negotiation.

Just on the off chance that it’s a texture thing (my child was eventually able to articulate that the sound of the coat fabric rubbing together made him feel awful and that’s why he hated wearing a coat) then I recommend, after a lot of research and help on here, Polarn - O - Pyret coats. Expensive new but we picked one up cheaply on Vinted. The quality is fantastic and apparently the fabric doesn’t give the same ‘fingers on a chalkboard’ feeling!

@PenelopeShadow you cannot force feed anyone, child or adult. It’s both impossible and abusive. And I don’t really want to discuss child abuse on here

Forest school ratios are different. You can’t have a ratio of thirteen 3 year olds to one adult with the 3 year olds wading in a stream or wandering in the trees with wildlife.

You also just can’t negotiate or force these things with some children. They still need to participate if there can be reasonable adjustments. This is where the parents and teachers have to work together to decide if it is a bit of a toddler tantrum or a real barrier to learning and participation.

You can actually, legally, although it might not be best practice, but there’s no official different ratio required for forest schools.

Besides the point though, and you absolutely can (and should) force certain things with children. A lot of children (additional needs or not) wouldn’t want to wear a bike helmet, or a seatbelt in the car, or a harness when rock climbing, or shoes outdoors. There are certain activities we just cannot do without the correct equipment and a waterproof coat for outdoor activities for a considerable period of time in wet conditions falls into that category IMO.

@yellowbobble the thing is they are mostly a bit niche.

You can force a child into a car seat. Unpleasant, but doable. You can’t keep a child in a coat without strapping their arms down or something!

There are not many things on here which make my jaw drop but your post has.

I could not, would not, allow my toddler to decide not to eat and drink to an extent where his health, his life, is in danger and not either force feed him myself or, if that failed, take him to a hospital for him to be force fed through a tube or whatever means were deemed neccesary to save his life.

What is the alternative? To wait? How long? Until he dies?

It would be cold, cold comfort for me to say well it was his choice and to force feed him would have been abuse.

I cannot believe that any mother would allow her toddler to die because she believed that it should be his choice and to over ride that choice-even by brutal means-would be abuse.

I don't know @iwant2cats . I cannot believe that many would think you are right but maybe there's more than just you.

But be there 20 million who would agree with you, I would never count myself in that number.

Normally, I laugh at posts that disagree with me and maybe make a sarcastic retort but, after many years here and many name changes, your post is the only one that has upset me.

A mother who would not save her toddler's life because she does not believe in force and even feels that to so, would be child abuse.

Time for me to back away from Mumsnet for a while.

It’s not even so much about using physical force, I’m more talking about holding a boundary. You CAN force a child into a car seat but you can’t force them to keep the seatbelt on can you? So what do you do if they unclip it? What would you do if they were removing their helmet when riding their bike?

@PenelopeShadow have you ever actually been in this position or is it strictly hypothetical?

Because I’ve worked with patients with ED who had to be tube fed (and many of them would rip out the tubes) and it’s an absolute last resort and only when it is deemed a life saving intervention. (And wearing waterproofs are not.)

If you try to force someone resisting to eat or drink they will just choke and vomit. It is something that cannot be forced, which is why it often becomes a stick used for control purposes in both toddlers and adults. That doesn’t mean you sit back and accept it. My own DD went through a stage of eating very little as a two year old; it was a worry but we got through it and she’s thriving now at three although still quite selective in the foods she will eat.

Why saying ‘you can’t force someone to eat’ had made your jaw drop I don’t know, but maybe you’ve led a sheltered life!

You’d have to get a car seat they can’t unclip. Ask me how I know!