Would you vote to Rejoin the EU if there was another referendum? - Part 2

[EEexpat]

Advantages and disadvantages?

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack

monumentally stupid choices

Who decides what is, or is not, considered to be stupid?

Your definition seems to be anyone who has a different view to your own.

@BelleEpoque27

The EU have made it clear we'd be welcomed back in

This raises more questions:

If the EU wants the UK to return, why have they not issued a formal invitation?

Have the EU specified what terms they will offer?

But the time Le Pen wins in France, AfD in Germany and with the likes of Meloni already in place in Italy, I doubt the EU would want our embarrassment of a left wing government anywhere near them. You can’t blame them really.

No

The EU landscape is changing, France is in difficulty with debt and social unrest. The elections next year will be a factor.

I would. We should never have been taken out of the EU on a non binding referendum with such a close result. People didn't take the referendum seriously as it was non binding and they wanted to stick two fingers up at the government of the time.

@dontcookwontcook

vote out and multiple referendums
vote in and that’s your lot guys!

I see where you’re coming from. Those that didn’t like the result in 2016 want to vote over and over until they get the result they want and then to block any future vote.

If one, or more, of the parties think that a rejoin is beneficial, then they could include it in their manifesto. People can then vote.

However, even that approach does not guarantee that the EU will accept an application from the UK. Nor does it guarantee that the EU and UK will be able to agree on a deal.

@Kpo58

We should never have been taken out of the EU on a non binding referendum with such a close result.

We weren’t. Article 50 was triggered by 498 MPs who preferred leave compared to 114 MPs who preferred remain in accordance with UK law that was established by the Gina Miller case.

Also, the 2015 EU referendum act stated there was no obligation for the result to be accepted.

No I wouldn't rejoin, we are in a bad state but so is much of the world and look at the problems France is encountering. Paris is unrecognisable.

And the rest. And the same all over ..

No - I think it's fair to say that such major change ought to have required a significant majority, particularly when so many people declined to vote. Although the flip side to that is by not voting, they tacitly agreed to accept the outcome whichever way it went, so there's that.

Everything that was wrong with the EU is still wrong. If it was just rejoining as a trading bloc, which was its original purpose, then yes. But otherwise no.

The starting point is that it has happened and we won't get the same deal as we had before. So a very different cost benefit analysis has to be done

Not the weirdly inflated financial models of what coulda/woulda/shoulda been

Not the lying, loosely based in a half truth political statement by any party

But a real, independent review of the real financial position we are in and how that would change if we rejoined with the same deal as every other country

And we won't get that for the same reasons we didn't get it last time. Nobody involved at tbe political level wants us to have it, for myriad reasons they also don't want us to know.

Nobody knows whether rejoinig would be better or worse

We all have our own opinions based on our own opinions, what we value, what we don't.

None of us are right, none of us are wrong

Except for those who insist they are right and anyone who disagrees is a fuckwit

Those people are always wrong

It's an opinion. I believe that Brexit was a monumentally stupid choice.

However, if the majority believe that it was the right decision for the UK, then there will be no chance of that decision getting overturned, will there?

The one eu policy i dont like is a ban on discounts on formula milk (please I dont want to debate that bit)

That hasn't changed since we've left the eu, AFAIK?

I would vote to rejoin though. And I was a remainer.

No

This 100% and I would definitely vote to rejoin. the whole referendum thing was a crazy idea in our country which he has so little experience of referenda and how to handle them. It was simply about Cameron trying to hold together internal splits in his own party and hang on to his own personal power as party leader.

Terrible idea to offer the Uk a referendum choice with no idea of what in reality Leave or Remain meant economically, socially and legally. So many people did want to stick two fingers up at the Cameron ‘we’re all in this together’ government quite reasonably and didn’t take their referendum vote seriously. They treated us like they just were giving Cameron a poke in the eye, rather than that they were voting for something that would actually happen. They didn’t believe that Leave would win just wanted to scare the government.

But that combined with people who believed Boris Johnson’s bus that Leave= more money would go to the NHS, was enough to tip it. Boris Johnson as and OK London Mayor at the last minute taking his popularity over to Leave campaign gave it some credibility. but that move was all about his own vanity, all about his own obnoxious personal bid for party leadership snd getting his childhood wish of being World King. Like a perfect storm all these things resulted in a narrow win for leave. Then we were in complete chaos politically for years. And a lot of the things people voted leave to get sorted like the economy and public services and the NHS have not had half the attention and money they would have had had Cameron not made the selfish commitment in a Tory Manifesto to offer a referendum on membership of the EU in order to keep his own position as party leader.

But the whole idea of leaving the EU was economically and socially mad.
whyever (by any measure you can pick) would it make sense to divorce ourselves from our closest neighbours and our biggest customers?

so, yes of course we should rejoin. I hope the politicians hurry it up. We are all much more vulnerable to Russia, China and America without closer ties with the other EU states

@MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack

It's an opinion.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It’s part of democracy.

I believe that Brexit was a monumentally stupid choice.

As per the Collins dictionary,

To believe means to accept that something is true, real, or correct—often without having complete or absolute proof.

I have underlined the part I think is the most significant.

Vulnerable in what way ?
What would re joining give us in terms of military strength against.russia ?
We have /had one of the most powerful armies in Europe we are already playing a major role in fending odd Russia with the other few EU countries who can because of course many are too weak and poor .

Socially ? How does it help ? We are are hardly side lines pariahs ?

Economically a little if we just re joined the single markets but that has disadvantages else where ? And the EU is hardly an eccomic powerhouse ....it's currently crumbling before our eyes with major riots across the EU from France /Belgium /Netherlands /Portugal /Spain / Italy /Albania etc about living standards and low wages .

I'm struggling to see any benefits ?

in fact if anything everyrhjng to do with the USA has shown just weak and pointless it is. Trump says "jump" we see postering and noble speeches then they say meekly " how high mr trump ">
The eu has zero political or eccomic clought and they are suckling at Putin's teat for energy and the USA .

Thanks. I know what an opinion is, and I've stated mine.

Like I said, if people consider Brexit to have been a good decision for the UK, then that will no doubt be reflected in their votes if the question is put to the public again.

The current opinion polls suggest that, right now, the majority of people think it was the wrong decision.

@FuzzySlippers

So many people did want to stick two fingers up at the Cameron ‘we’re all in this together’ government and didn’t take their referendum vote seriously

How can it be known that people did not take their vote seriously? If they weren’t interested, why not abstain like the 28 % who didn’t vote?

@Kpo58

As per the booklet sent to every household in the UK it was binding. Remember the statement:

This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide.

Turned out that the Government could not trigger Article by themselves, but had to be voted on by MPs.

Give over. You just need to research it yourself if you are ‘struggling to see’

Eg Its estimated that Brexit has left the UK economy 6% to 8% smaller than it would have been if the country had remained in the European Union

that's a horrific hit to the UK’s finances.

Yes, absolutely.

Plus we tracked Germany anyway from 2008 to 2016 and pretty much have since then, if not slightly up.

I know people that said they did this. Especially in London and the SE where majority were for Leave; a minority just wanted to piss of Cameron and voted accordingly. Always a massive mistake to put a sitting UK prime minister on one side or other of that vote.
Hence me saying the UK has (or had) little understanding of how to run referenda or of what to do legally or of how to interpret it, once they have a referendum result.

Yes