48% of Britain's would refuse to fight for their country

[cakeorwine]

So a new headline today

Daily Telegraph
Half of Britons would refuse to fight for their country

Half of Britons say there are no circumstances in which they would go to war for their country, a poll has found.

While the pollster Ipsos found strong backing for increased defence spending, some 48 per cent said there was no situation in which they would take up arms.

One in two Britons would never fight for their country | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

It was not that easy to find the data set but I've linked it below and shown the data from the question

Original data here

Despite rising support for increasing defence spending, half of Britons say there are no circumstances under which they would take up arms for Britain | Ipsos

War-trends-final-weighted

Would be interested to hear your opinion on the survey results

As would Sir Humphrey

But would anyone who has arrived in the last 5 years be willing to die for Britain (2 1/2 million)? I don’t think so.

re: salami tactics. I remember Lord Carrington saying once that the only way that nuclear weapons would be a deterrent would be for people to know you have got them but not know under what circumstances you would use them. He said that before the "salami tactics" episode, also I think they were much less powerful them although of course still unimaginably horrible

I think that's a typo - the quote was "nation of strangers"

@cakeorwine Yes, I do think it's good practice to have read at least part of a survey before responding with an opinion, which is why I have not given an opinion.

What's your opinion of the survey? You must have read it. And please don't respond with yet more links that people aren't going to read.

I think the question was badly worded. It was

There are no circumstances where I would be willing to take up arms and go to war for Britain

There are circumstances where I would be willing to take up arms and go to war for Britain

Don't know

Going to war sounds very different to defending your country

We went to war in Iraq
The Ukraineans defended their country from invasion

A badly or deliberately badly worded question

Is that a new version of 'small island'?

It is badly worded, that's for sure. Chances are that most parents would be prepared to kill in order to defend their children from being killed.

There are no circumstances where I would be willing to take up arms and defend Britain

There are circumstances where I would be willing to take up arms and defend Britain

Don't know

That improves it.
It is sort of the Department of War (injecting testosterone) vs the Department of Defence (injecting backbone).

That's good.

Go to war vs Defend are 2 very different concepts

And you're basing that opinion on what, exactly?

48% of Britain's population don't understand where to use apostrophes.

That they've been in the UK for less than 5 years?

So what? The Gurkhas who fight alongside British troops have often spent little or no time in the UK. The hundreds of thousands of Indian troops who fought alongside the British army in WWII had never stepped foot in the UK. But they, and many others, put their lives on the line for us.

You might be so insular that you wouldn't fight for another country but that's no reason to project your self-interest on to everyone else.

Seriously if we've got 48% of British citizens, the majority born here, as were their parents and their parents etc being unwilling to fight for their country, then you are being delusional if you think someone who has been here less than five years will.

Comparing the UK today with the situation 75 to 80
years ago is completely unrealistic.

Do you think they would defend this country?

I agree. If I was supervsing a student doing a survey and they brought me questions couched in that way, I would point out the clarity and objectivity issues of the wording.

You're pre-judging people you don't even know based on nothing but the fact that they're immigrants.

Hung many St George's Cross flags from lamp posts recently?

They used to have teams of people on the roofs looking for bombers. The women weren't allowed to operate the anti-aircraft guns because that counted as a combat position but would be the ones with binoculars scanning the sky
Both roles equally dangerous. Nom combat is not the same as not front linem and your nans job would have been risky too. Literally staying outside when everyone else was sheltering from bombs

I came on to post this! Remarkably similar responses from the press as well

Well @JeffLebowski seems to think that migrants by being resident in the UK for a lower period of time than established UK citizens means that the migrants would be more likely to fight for / defend the UK.

She may have a point in that I once spent a year resident in France as part of my Uni degree and also a month in Majorca.

According to @JeffLebowskithis clearly means that if either France or Spain were attacked then given such "deep ties" it would be my loyal patriotic duty to fight to defend them.

Want to try that again but, this time, accurately portray my position rather than just making stuff up?

It a completely different conversation to say that during the Second World War some governments from other nations allied themselves with our government to send troops to participate in the war as opposed to individuals who were born in other countries and are now living in the uk deciding to fight for the UK.
For instance would you expect British people who have moved to Dubai to fight for the UAE if Dubai was attacked by Iran in a serious way, I think the vast majority would leave for the duration of the war because fundamentally they have somewhere else to go.

I don't blame them. I would not either. Ordered to your potential death whist they are safe in their ivory tower. No thanks.

Yes it's been awhile since we had leaders who led the battle charge and were willing to die (and sometimes did). Now they hide in bunkers. 🙄

If only there were examples of foreign troops fighting for the UK up to the present day. Like, say, the Gurkhas. Or the Fijians. Fair number of Ghanaians too.

Did you not know that? Are you that poorly informed about the subjects you pontificate about?