48% of Britain's would refuse to fight for their country

[cakeorwine]

So a new headline today

Daily Telegraph
Half of Britons would refuse to fight for their country

Half of Britons say there are no circumstances in which they would go to war for their country, a poll has found.

While the pollster Ipsos found strong backing for increased defence spending, some 48 per cent said there was no situation in which they would take up arms.

One in two Britons would never fight for their country | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

It was not that easy to find the data set but I've linked it below and shown the data from the question

Original data here

Despite rising support for increasing defence spending, half of Britons say there are no circumstances under which they would take up arms for Britain | Ipsos

War-trends-final-weighted

Would be interested to hear your opinion on the survey results

As would Sir Humphrey

Considering that approx 1 in 5 of the UK population is not British born...that possibly accounts for a good chunk of those numbers nowadays!

@cakeorwine I read the linked article, yes, and responded to it by citing concrete circumstances that change peoples' minds.

I don't think I follow your point.

I think any survey like that is nonsense.

Plenty of the blustery “oh yeah I’d definitely fight, I’d scare off the Russians single-handedly” would be running in the other direction if it happened. I mean, 41% of people aged 55-75 said they’d “take up arms and go to war”? Give over.

But then I also think that some people who said no would change their mind if actually faced with it.

@Chipandcherry

I've attached a link to the survey data and demographics. It's near the last page of the PDF

War-trends-final-weighted

People don’t always understand the impact of your home town being bombed and your family being killed and how that tends to turn pacifists or even supporters of the attacking regime into fighters

Did you read the attached question and data table?

Any thoughts on the question. 2 posters, including me, have linked a Yes Prime Minister clip which might help

If they mean going off to fight in some far off land that's one thing, if it's hand to hand fighting in your town with foreign soldiers burning your house down and raping your daughter you quickly change your mind, but it might be too late by then.

It’s tricky, if you see the background to how Britain ended up losing hundreds of thousands of soldiers in France and Flanders (not directly protecting their own country) you can understand the sentiment.

If we were being invaded by a hostile power who wanted to kill or oppress us (I have teen daughters and the thought of how women are treated in war zones, and by some regimes, is obscene) I would be fighting tooth and nail. So I guess I would be fighting for my family and the freedom of the people of our country, rather than for King and Country.

The government can have my two sons (let's face it - it's always going to be mostly men) the week after the Westminster Regiment, "Sons and Daughters of MPs, Peers and Senior Civil Servants Battalion", has picked up rifles and is entrenched in the front lines.
Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg could provide a unit just made up of their children alone!

There was a choice. There were conscientious objectors.

Bloody good job our people did not think in that way in WW2.
They understood a threat that was determined to conquer Europe entirely.
We stood alone at one point in fighting the Nazi regime on our small island. But had not waited for them to be attempting to cross the channel before we decided to fight.

I think it's partly because many people aren't proud to be from this country. I suppose people may feel there is nothing to fight for? If day to day living is crap then why bother trying to save it? Young people especially are unlikely to have kids, own a home, retire, etc. That's not necessarily my own feelings, but I can understand that line of thought in this day and age and how that may influence answers. I watched a documentary a while back about Finland and how they've always been ready for war with citizens prepared to fight, but their quality of life is much better.

The people who said no may well feel differently if the threat is real and imminent however.

DH and I had this conversation and he said he would fight for where we live locally. Community spirit here is huge and I think everyone would be out trying to defend it. Extend it to the rest of the country though and I think many would think twice.

Would you go to fight?

I note there is a significant difference between men and women.

it’s a survey of about 1000 people roughly evenly split between men and women.

traditionally it is men who are expected to join the army.

obviously these days both men and women are in the army but in any future war it’s unlikely men and women will be conscripted equally purely because pregnant women and women with children under the age of 1 are not going to be useful in the army.

also purely on a logistics ground if you conscript men who have children and women who have children no-one is left to look after the children and they will all have to go into foster care (with whom?)

usually countries conscript single men first, often with exemptions for nationally important industries (eg farming and coal mining in the Second World War) then men with children. If applied equally then it would be single men and single women then onto men/women with children.

single women in the Second World War largely joined organisations like the land army so they replaced men on the farms etc.

historically Britain has had many fewer invasions than other European countries because of the sea between us and the continent. Russia is a problem but the likelihood they will physically invade Britain is very low.

My parents weren’t British born, they still would have definitely joined in, they would have been deeply offended if anyone tried to invade their home.

Plus just because Britains a mess I’m not sure the alternative of being ruled under dictatorship by another country is much better.

I doubt it would have been that different during WW2, for one thing it would have been only men being asked to fight so that figure would be lower. Also a lot of men only joined up when conscription came in, they didn’t have much choice.

I'm surprised it's that many. I'm not sure that I could kill some other poor young sod who was also forced into this BS.

It’s depressing that 52% would fight. Perhaps if 100% of people would not go to war the world would be a better place.

We don’t need war.

We all said we’d never have lockdown for Covid as no one would follow the rules but when it came to it, the majority did.

I’m not surprised tbh. The moral here at the moment is on the floor. People don’t feel heard, everything is expensive and life is difficult for so many. For some having safe secure affordable housing is like hens teeth and people are pissed off.

There doesn’t seem to be any sort of unity. Scotland and Wales want their independence (absolutely fair enough), the far right can’t stand the far left and vice vecer, some wouldn’t want to fight for Britain as they don’t affiliate themselves in a way that would make them want to fight, different religious groups have affiliations with different counties and depending what country we were fighting would be an influence or not…

There doesn’t seem to be any ‘We’re all part of the same team’ there isn’t a team anymore unfortunately

I think for reality, you'd need to add the "circs under which they would" and the "don't knows" together. To me "don't know" indicates that there might be circumstances under which they would, equally the "circumstances under which they would" also indicates that there are circumstances under which they would not which is surely the same as "don't know'? If you do that, the figures change quite a bit

Considering the number of Indian, African, Nepalese, Caribbean, Canadian, Australian, New Zealander, etc troops who stood shoulder to shoulder with British troops during the first and second world wars as well as in many subsequent conflicts, I'd say you're not just talking utter bollocks you're also distressingly uninformed about British history. Figures.

My late father was a company sergeant major to a company of troops from Lesotho.

I suspect any Ukrainians would be entirely puzzled by this thread.

Same. It’s horrendous for both sides.