Who is English?

[mids2019]

I see reform have started a debate about the meaning of being English which has stirred a few feathers. To my mind anyone who is born in the country is English..

I would say moving to a country does not necessarily make you a national of a country e.g. if I moved the South of Spain as a retired I don't know if could reasonably call my self Spanish but children of English people definitely could.

One thing that is worth debate is how you frame heritage and is this important? For instance would 2nd.generation immigrants from India would want to be referred as English but if Indian oriigin? Is there an actual desire for people of foreign heritage to maintain a part of their identity connected to their country of family origin for cultural reason?

Like I said, saying the same thing over and over again doesn't strengthen your point.

On that criteria, if she is Cornish then I am Northern! Which I most certainly am not. I am a soft southerner and always will be, no matter the fact I will have lived up north longer than the south.

Shes just someone who moved to Cornwall.

"To be born an English man is to win first prize in the lottery of life"

Maybe not at the moment under this Labour government though...😉

Ignoring facts doesn't make you correct.

What facts am I ignoring?

Please don't just repeat the same argument. Tell me about the underlying facts that your arguments are based on.

Ethnicity isn't a social conduct. It's biology and genetics.

I'm ethnically Indian. There's nothing about changing that.

Genetics and biology

Japan is an interesting example as it has 3 main ethnicities and they are more distinct from each other genetically than England is from Scotland or Cornwall.

In japan, people with a japanese passport are considered japanese by the government and have to renounce other citizenship.

So presumably same debates go on as here.

Is Japanese an ethnicity? Ik you say it here and you may be right but wondering if people agree on this part for a start

Of course it is. You are confusing ethnicity and race.

Ethnicity is your cultural identity. Race is genetic. They are different.

I am not disputing that you are ethnically Indian. I am disputing your claim that ethnicity can be reduced to biology and genetics.

Please can you answer my question about the specific"facts" that you think I'm ignoring? Simply saying "genetics and biology" doesn't answer the question, as these are areas of knowledge, and not specific facts that can be evidenced.

Which genetic and/or biological facts are you referring to?

No.

She was born in England so she is perfectly entitled to consider herself English.

Japanese is an ethnicity, yes.

But having a Japanese identity doesn't rely exclusively on having Japanese heritage.

I don't think there's any Celt in my recent family history unfortunately so yes, I'm English. But I consider myself to be a supporter of the Celtic nations in keeping their language and culture alive and part of the Gorsedh ceremony involves declaring that you will ' be true to Cornwall, our Celtic nation'......As I said I would rather be a Celtic ally than be part of the English identity espoused by Reform/ Restore and their ilk.

I'd prefer us all to be united rather than Balkanised really.

There are similar debates in Japan.

The Zainichi Korean population - people of Korean heritage who have been in Japan for generations - are probably a good example here. Some of them consider themselves to be Korean. Some consider themselves to be Japanese. Some consider themselves to be both Korean and Japanese. Some of them specifically identify as "Zainichi".

The government considers them to be Japanese and they are entitled to Japanese nationality. Most ordinary people accept them as Japanese. A minority on the far right are keen to argue that they cannot be Japanese.

The Japense might quibble with that, being a fairly homogeneous nation.

👏👏👏

Yes, the ethnonationalists in Japan would undoubtedly quibble with that.

The Japanese nation is an "Etho nationalist" nation 🤣.

They just have different views of how they want their society to be from you.

Does this apply to English too?

I think all the politicians who have said who they are can self identify but do the English have an ethnicity and an identity in the same way?

I disagree. There are ethnonationalists in Japan, undoubtedly. But there are very many ordinary Japanese people who strongly reject that way of thinking.

Sorry, not trying to dodge anything here but I'm not sure if I understand the question that you're asking.

I think its just how people in each country think of someone who looks different from them. In England until recently it hasn't been an issue. No one really cared if you weren't white or whether you called yourself English or not. Until all the identity politics reared it's ugly head.

In Japan if you don't look ethnically Japanese will other people in Japan consider that you are really Japanese? Probably never.

If you're asking whether I think there is such a thing as an English culture and identity, then yes, I think there is.

I just don't think it is defined by ancestry.