Would you vote to re-join the EU in another referendum?

[GorgeousSpringtime]

Simple question. If there is another referendum to re-join the EU, will you be voting to re-join?

This isn't to have a go at anyone who supported Brexit, or who supported Remain, it's just a quick straw poll. Thank you.

If anyone is wondering, (or cares!) I think I will vote to re-join. (I won't say at this point what I voted for last time...)

You're forgetting the supremacy of EU law and direct effect. Our legal system has completely changed since leaving the EU regarding the source of our laws and who makes them.

@SevenYellowHammers

disinformation by remain campaign was:

500,000 to 800,000 jobs would be lost just by a vote to leave (UK treasury April 2016).

UK would be at the back of the queue for a trade deal with the US (April 2016). Later it was confirmed Obama prompted by Cameron and Osborne as per the BBC documentary Brexit - A very British civil war 2026.

George Osborne said there would be a recession and emergency budget if UK voted to leave (15 June 2016, 8 days before the referendum)

What actually happened was;

Unemployment declined from 2015 to 2024. A trend which might have continued had Labour not made the cost of employment higher.

UK has lower tariffs on exports to the US (the worlds largest economy) than the EU.

The recession never happened. UK has grown more than, France, Germany and Italy since Brexit.

UK has lower immigration than, Germany, France, Spain and Italy.

Brexit was bad for trade. Not least because of the uncertainty. The cost of living rose. What bastards the Labour Party were to raise wages to partially meet that rise!😂 Red tape and bungled policies at borders further damaged trade and the economy. None of the wallies who dreamt Brexit up had even thought of what it would do to Irish border. The pound and GDP has suffered. Racism, Xenophobic behaviour, Islamophobia and antisemitism are the only growth industries since then. Everyone knows it. We allowed ourselves to be screwed over by a load of interfering twats. Tell me something, if our membership of the EU wasn’t beneficial to us, why did Trump and Putin want us to leave?

@SevenYellowHammers

Brexit was bad for trade.

For goods, maybe. However, that about 16% of UK GDP.

Services sector, which represents over 80% of both employment and GDP has boomed since Brexit. Source ONS.

None of the wallies who dreamt Brexit up had even thought of what it would do to Irish border

Cameron, a remain supporter, was the PM who offered the referendum. Hence, it was his duty to have a plan for a leave vote. However, as he was from Eton and Oxford, he made the assumption that ordinary people would never dare to question the superior elites who had been to Eton and Oxford.

Also, when the GFA was passed 10 April 1998, a group called the BIC (British Irish Council) was formed. One of their duties was to monitor how any changes in EU policy may affect the GFA. Why did they not make a plan in:

2009 when Article 50 was passed by the EU?

Or in 2013 when Cameron stated there would be a referendum if he won the following general election?

Or in 2015 when Cameron won and it was then known for certain there would be a referendum?

The pound and GDP has suffered

In December 2013, the pound was 1,13 Euro. Today is it 1.18. So, where is the suffering?

Racism, Xenophobic behaviour, Islamophobia and antisemitism are the only growth industries since then. Everyone knows it.

This sympathy plea appears often, but is never backed up with evidence.

Tell me something, if our membership of the EU wasn’t beneficial to us, why did Trump and Putin want us to leave?

Trump was not the US president at the time of the referendum. It was Obama. As requested by Cameron and Osbourne, he stated on UK TV in April 2016 that if the UK voted to leave the EU, the UK would be at the back of the queue for a trade deal with the US. The opposite happened.

I would say Trump does not like the EU. That he imposed higher tariffs upon the EU the UK was a clear statement of that I would say.

Regards Putin, Burnham has stated there is no evidence that interference, if any occurred, altered the referendum result.

Look, I don’t pretend to be an economist but it’s widely accepted that the pound is weaker with us out of the EU and unlikely, according to a Goldman and Sachs’ source unlikely to achieve pre Brexit strength.

I’m not the best at explaining this but my understanding is that our post industrial economy is too dependent on overseas investment and as this has also suffered post Brexit.

The Ireland issue was a disaster and they didn’t sort it because no one seriously believed that the referendum would go that way. Cameron believed he was shutting the Euroskeptics up.

An embarrassing miscalculation.

And the Tories say that Labour are divided. Give me strength. Mind you, Tories seem positively lovely compared to the horror show of Reform that’s been released.

Racist or religiously influenced criminal incidents spiked by a 41% increase in the days following Brexit. (police data)

41%!

I saw it with my own eyes as a head of year then.

Long term studies such as those by Strathclyde University reported sustained increases in reported racial discrimination and attacks.

The political climate changed and people became so much more polemical.

If I sound like I was a committed Remainer, I wasn’t, I was swayed by left arguments about how the EU economy was going to collapse.

I literally made my mind up at the ballot box to vote remain because I couldn’t bear to align with Farage. I could not have predicted how awful leaving was going to be and the years of disruption.

A disaster.

I voted remain. I’m a hard yes. That referendum was the biggest act of self harm any country has ever carried out and I’m embarrassed by it!

Remain then, rejoin now.

However, as he was from Eton and Oxford, he made the assumption that ordinary people would never dare to question the superior elites who had been to Eton and Oxford.

Given the figurehead of Vote Leave also went to Eton and Oxford... say what?

Plenty to gain just look at what we lost....

Labour were silly to take the strategy of ‘rubbing their noses in diversity’ that was Blair’s gov.

What did they expect to happen? Winding up the electorate on purpose is so ridiculous and wrong-footed no wonder we got Brexit.

And now just riding roughshod over a vote will be divisive. Initially Burnham said it was the last thing he’d do, given it would undermine democracy.

Plus economically there’s not much in it across the EU v the UK.

And now just riding roughshod over a vote will be divisive. Initially Burnham said it was the last thing he’d do, given it would undermine democracy.

How would having a further vote be riding roughshod over a prior vote?

Burnham’s own words

Burnham said: ‘My view is that Brexit has been damaging, but I also believe the last thing we should do right now is re-run those arguments.’
He added: ‘I am not proposing that the UK considers rejoining the EU.
‘I respect the decision that was made at the referendum and it is going to undermine everything I have said about strengthening democracy if we don’t respect that vote.’

Labour were silly to take the strategy of ‘rubbing their noses in diversity’ that was Blair’s gov.

What did they expect to happen? Winding up the electorate on purpose is so ridiculous and wrong-footed no wonder we got Brexit.

Eh? The Cameron government called the referendum, after five years of governing in coalition with the Lib Dems. How was it Blair's fault?

Eh? it’s in the post.

Noted. But in reference to the first sentence of yours which I quoted, and to which my post pertained... how, philosophically, is having a further vote riding roughshod (your words, not AB's) over a vote?

So the Blair govt is to blame for the decision of a Tory govt 5+ years later, and that's your story, and you're sticking to it?

Mm hmm.

You think the build up to Brexit didn’t have any impact on why it won.

That’s your story and you’re sticking to it.
Mm hmm.

No comment on this, @EasternStandard ?

Duly noted.

@SheilaFentiman ,

If you don’t think Blair had any influence on the referendum, why do you think that Remain lost?

Blair reneged on a promised referendum on a key EU treaty and let millions of Eastern European immigrants in which really hurt salaries in some jobs.

Of course, Cameron was also incompetent and Boris was downright dishonest, but Blair was certainly a large part of why we ended up leaving.

IMO Leave won due to a combination of factors, some but not all below, in no particular order

• great campaign messaging by Cummings et al - generally a much more cohesive side than remain and willing to talk shite about German carmakers and £350m a week
• personal charisma of Johnson
• Cameron claiming he would do a substantive renegotiation but not coming back with much, so starting the race hampered
• general dissatisfaction with the status quo - not aided by the fact we have never been in love with the European project as a whole (mood music) - always about what it cost us, not what we gained
• stick it to the man - the incumbent will often lose by elections mid term
• Corbyn going awol in the campaign but not really allowing others to step in convincingly for him

and if we are going back to Blair, we also need to go back to Lamont and the ERM, Thatcher and the CAP, Up Yours Delors etc - see the mood music point.

The Tim Shipman books are excellent though weigh in at many hundred pages a pop.

How would having a further vote be riding roughshod over a prior vote
@SheilaFentiman

I agree that the result of referendums shouldn’t last forever, but if there was another referendum in 2027 to rejoin or stay out of the EU, would it be acceptable to have another referendum in 2037 to let the electorate once again to choose in or out?

@SheilaFentiman

Given the figurehead of Vote Leave also went to Eton and Oxford... say what?

I suggest you watch the BBC documentary titled Brexit - A very British Civil War.

Boris Johnson said he wanted to beat David Cameron at something because when they were at Eton together he could beat him at tennis. Cameron offered Boris a senior position in government if he supported remain, but Johnson declined as he wanted to beat Cameron.

Johnson in the documentary confirmed he did not have a plan because he thought leave would not win. So, yes Johnson was leading the leave campaign in the red bus, but it was to get one over Cameron.

@SheilaFentiman

I would say remain lost because they focussed on theoretical negatives of leaving as opposed to the benefits that UK had gained by being an EU member. The negatives I remember were:

500,000 to 800,000 job losses just by voting to leave. Never happened and unemployment was falling up until 2024 when Labour made it more costly to employ people.

4% drop in GDP by Q3 2018. Never happened.

Immediate recession if the vote was to leave. Never happened.

Emergency budget immediately after a vote to leave that would increase taxes and reduce spending. Never happened.

Cameron even stated that a vote leave could trigger WWIII. Never happened.

This is you answer as to why there should not be another referendum:

”would it be acceptable to have another referendum in 2037 to let the electorate once again to choose in or out?”

Courtesy of Ilovewhippets

What’s the issue?

Yes of course it makes sense to look at the lead in to the referendum. I voted remain, and was staunchly so, but looking back it’s easier to see why Leave won.

I still think there’s issues with re-join.