Why was I taken seriously when I asked for a c-section but not when I asked for an epidural?

[Flippiefish]

Before I was put on synto I had told the midwife no to the injections but that I would consider an epidural. Had an immediate reaction to the drip and asked for an epidural. Was told that the staff were in theatre and they’d get to me. Then lost the power of speech & any rational thought due to being on the drip with a back to back baby and no pain relief. About 3 hours later I demanded a c-section and was in theatre very quickly. No particular difference in clinical picture apart from only having dilated 1 more cm. I couldn’t take any more.

The midwife who debriefed me skirted round this but did say at separate points that it was an early call for a section and that an epidural would likely have helped (no shit Sherlock).

I couldn’t articulate this during my debrief but I do feel let down. Aibu?! I am very much grieving the experience of a vaginal birth and trying to build a positive mindset for a vbac.

That sounds absolutely rubbish but I am not in the UK.
I am so sorry, I had a 'sunny side up' baby and it was awfully painful.

Congratulations on your baby, I hope you get your VBAC.

I had two c-sections but I am in no way grieving missing a vaginal birth. All my friends who have tried it have said it was excruciating. My mother told me it was the worst experience of her life and the pain was so bad she thought she was going to die. She said the best part of it was meeting the anaesthetist who told her it would all be over when she woke up. When I had my second - private specialist - I told him I didn't want to run the risk of rupturing my uterus with a VBAC and he said that sounded perfectly reaonable to him. The c-section saved the life of my eldest - he would have likely died in a natural delivery as he had a prolapsed cord. My aunt nearly died in a vaginal delivery in a country town with only a local GP and my mother, her terrified younger sister, drafted in to help. She suffered terrible childbirth injuries.

When my specialist knew I wasn't any fan of natural childbirth, he commented that people only idealised natural childbirth because they didn't remember how awful it could be in the "old days". I told him I wanted drugs and plenty of them. He told me a story about a patient in active labout for two days and the baby was too high for forceps and c-sections were fairly primitive in the day and a last resort. He also said I had much less risk of a later prolapse of the uterus rather than pushing out a baby for hours. I apparently had the same problem as my aunt with a problem with dilating and I feel grateful that I had a safe c-section and live babies rather than going through what she did. She never had any more children and she in a wheelchair for weeks afterwards.

I had a similar first birth although refused the drip until I’d got the epidural although it didn’t completely solve the pain issue.
Second birth had a cs booked but ended up with a slightly early unplanned VBAC, my choice not to have the cs. Labour felt different, progressed steadily, it was hard work and painful I did prefer it to the cs.
It felt different as the baby was in a better position which made it possible

Well I AM grieving and sanctimonious horror stories don’t help.

It was so unlike all of the ‘wave’/ ‘surges’ I had read about. Hopefully a spontaneous labour would feel different for me too.

I also grieved the birth i thought I would have. CBT really helped me work through things. The birth of my second child was also a really healing experience. I hope the same is true for you.

You don’t feel a birth with an epidural. I guess the anaesthetist was in theatre and not coming to the birthing suite? I had 2 epidurals but made it clear I wanted it from day 1. I guess you didn’t. I’d try and enjoy your baby! Women these days get very tangled up in the “how”. I definitely think epidurals are the brilliant but your hospital seems theatre based. I’d put it clearly on your birthing plan next time. The anaesthetist then comes to you, but they won’t if they are busy elsewhere. Plus you often need a top up.

I had a planned c section with both mine due to medical reasons and every now and then I feel sad I never experienced a vaginal, though I did have waters break for one child and early labour contractions for another so I do feel grateful I at least had that.

But I try and remind myself the most important thing was getting the DC out safely without causing permanent damage to myself (which a vaginal would have done). It doesn’t make me feel any less sad, I just try and rationalise it rather than focus on a romanticised version of what childbirth should be like.

I’m sorry OP. You should have been counselled appropriately with the synto drip and offered an epidural before it started. Usually there is only one anaesthetist on the labour ward and if they were in theatre then s/he wasn’t free to do your epidural, although they were in theatre with you. However by then the plan had changed to a CS so I imagine it was beyond their scope to offer an epidural and not the CS as they’re not obstetricians. My best guess would be they moved quickly for a CS because the obstetrician could make that call whereas they couldn’t get you your epidural? It’s a bit odd because like I say there was an anaesthetist for you in theatre… in my experience (ex midwife) I’d be escalating your request because if they’re back to back in theatre and someone needs the anaesthetist on LW (not just for an epidural they are needed for plenty of other things too) then that needs escalating and documenting to ensure adequate cover.

My 3rd birth I had the synto drip having had spontaneous labour with my first 2, it went so rapidly fast and painful that while my daughter arrived very quickly it was unbelievably painful and scary and I wish I had asked for an epidural beforehand - I’m saying this to reassure you it IS bloody painful and different to spontaneous labour. I had an unmedicated homebirth with my 2nd and the drip was much much MUCH worse, pain wise.

Yes, it does seem odd that they didn’t have the resources for an anaesthetist, yet did have the resources for an anaesthetist, surgeon, and however many surgery nurses are required for major abdominal surgery. Did your birthing partner push hard against this?

surely it was about timing as much as anything. Isn’t that obvious?

demanding a c section ?!
nice.

I’m sorry for your experience OP. If you were on the NHS, it comes down to which trust your hospital belongs to. I got lucky with the Chelsea & Westminster NHS Trust. I was clear in my birth notes that I wanted an epidural from the get go and that a C-Section was to be my last resort. I was immediately hooked up to the epidural right before I was induced, and given a button so I could self-administer my top ups (which were capped at the safe limit).

I hope you get your VBAC (with all the drugs you need) and that the experience brings you healing and closure.

Sorry it was so awful OP. You trust they know what’s best and are there to look after you and in fact they are juggling all sorts of other priorities.

People experience birth very differently, I did hypobirthing etc with my first and was aghast the ‘waves’ were nothing like described, I begged for epidurals early with both mine.

There’s an episode of Frasier where a childbirth ‘expert’ says “Natural childbirth need not be painful,” and Roz replies, “It need not be, but it be.” I think of this a lot.

I'm really sorry that sounds tough. Unfortunately if the anaesthetist is in theatre they can't leave to do an epidural on the ward and you're deemed able to wait. I didn't get an epidural 20 years ago when delivering a stillborn baby. They gave me diamorphine instead which didn't seem to do anything except make me puke everywhere and hallucinate. I don't know if I'd have eventually got an epidural if I'd been able to say words enough to ask for one. I think probably not as I remember that I noticed being fobbed off at one point.

All I can say is these experiences are horrible and they shouldn't happen but you do get past them. Things like regretting the birth you wanted to have feel very raw and sad when your in the childbearing years but thats a fairly short time for most people and then you get into the (IMO more interesting and fulfilling) childhood years.

I work in obstetrics as part of my roll.

It sounds like the anesthetist genuinely wasn't available to do your epidural when you asked.

Later the when you asked for a c-section the theatre was free so they were able to do the section quickly.

Where I work we have a separate theatre team for the obstetrics theatre. There is sometimes only one anaesthetist, so if we were busy in theatre a patient may have to wait until we were finished.

I understand you are grieving.
It's hard and i found pals crap tbh... its cold comfort ultimately you have the right result (everyone is alive and healthy).

Back to back natural births are few and fair between.

the two women I know in your circs birth wise both also wanted natural births. Neither had them.
One got induced, had the epidural got her natural birth" and a third degree tear that reopened 3 times 😵‍💫. Her son in 5 as she still had problems and has had follow up surgeries.

The other had the epidural, continued laboring for another 24 or so, started crashing and had a c section under GA and was deeply traumatised by it all. To the point they stayed at 1.

Another women at work was pregnant at the same time - her baby wasnt b2b her labor wasnt progressing as planned but was firm she wanted vaginal and the baby ended up being starved of oxygen as they didnt call time on labour / get her to theatre quickly enough. Her dd is now profoundly disabled. The money from suing will not compensate for the truly awful outcome.

Your birth was recent and I think nct and Instagram hype up nd sell in vaginal birth as "magical" and im sure for 5"7 woman with 6lbs babies.

Take some time. I'd also look at "three-step rewind" I found it very healing.

I didn’t grieve for a vaginal birth. I was glad when I had to have a c section. No way I wanted the pain

Later the when you asked for a c-section the theatre was free so they were able to do the section quickly.

I feel a bit like they all gave up on me. No one told me it was all normal or that I was doing well or gave me any positive encouragement, they just wheeled me off and cut me open like I was never going to be able to give birth. No one even mentioned trying the epidural again.

My partner would NEVER admit it but I think he does think I gave up too.

I feel silly for even thinking about trying again tbh.

@Flippiefish I am sure your partner is just glad you and the baby are fine. That is the ultimate aim.

@Flippiefish Why are you both so fixated on one type of birth to the extent you are grieving over it ? I find this so odd. It’s something I don’t remember anyone doing years ago when DDs were born. We were removed to be pain free and have a healthy baby. The baby matters in all of this. How anyone can be forgotten about when staff feel a CS is necessary is beyond me too. Essentially you were too late for an epidural because you didn’t plan for one because you wanted a magic vaginal birth. It used to be the case the epidural was administered early and not when you aren’t coping.

Thank you for your support and kindness 🙄

I am actually questioning why I didn’t have an early epidural given that I a) did plan for one and b)asked for one. Could you not read my post from that high horse?

My second birth didn't go quite as planned, which I know happens for a lot of women. I think the difference is that I was kept well informed of what was happening and I felt heard throughout labour. It sounds as though you don't feel like you were listened to and you haven't had a proper opportunity to discuss your experience and get the answers you need. Of course the priority is to keep mum and baby safe, but you will never feel more vulnerable than you do during childbirth so your feelings around that are important and should not be dismissed. I hope you manage to work through this OP, and if you do have more children, you have a much more positive experience.

Bless you @Flippiefish it sounds like you had a really rough time of it. And anyone who hasn’t had synto “contractions” really can’t know the pain of them… I had that with my first baby and it was truly awful. I laboured 3 more times after that and I can honestly
say that even the horrendous contractions I had when huge baby number four (literally huge- he was half an ounce under 11lb!!) was stuck and back to back weren’t as awful as the synto ones from labour one. They aren’t natural and it’s like your body is just massively spasming or squeezing violently without any actual result or point. Horrible horrible.
I am sorry you felt not listened to but I can only think too that after 3 hours anyone could tell you’d be a likely candidate for a c section and as others have said, the anaesthetist in theatre isn’t the same as one who can go to the wards often… so it’s not like they were hiding from you.
As a recent birth partner I can also assure you it’s highly unlikely anyone seeing you go through that would have felt you “gave up” at all… I wonder if he was equally relieved to have your pain stop and have the baby out as it is so scary for the birth partner to feel so helpless. I hope he could maybe offer you some reassurance on that part.

If you feel going over your birth again would help you can request another debrief and ask your questions or you could have a look here.

Birth trauma association

Please don’t let peoples ignorant “baby is safe and healthy so you can’t complain or
feel bad” attitude upset you. They’re wrong. You can feel sad and angry about your birth whilst being grateful and relieved your baby is safe.
FWIW as you can see it is possible to go on to have more babies after a traumatic birth. For me the desire to have children and the space and time away from the birth helped me know it was worth trying again. I had 3 more children. But it is okay not to as well. Try to figure out what the honest answer to “do I want another child?” Rather than “do I want to give birth again?”

💐
All the best to you.

@Flippiefish You have not said an epidural was in your birthing plan! You says you asked for one in the birthing unit. So don’t have a go at me for saying this was not a plan before Labour. You clearly wanted to no interventions and now aren’t happy the anaesthetist was busy. Anyway I will leave you to your anger but in life you don’t always get what you demand when you demand it.