SA trigger warning: confused about incident when 11

[askingthishere]

When I was about 11 and my brother was 13, he asked me to come into his bedroom at about 2am. The room was dark with candles and a table with ornaments on it. He had a cloak on. He had set up his room for what he called an occult initiation of me and asked me to take all my clothes off so I was naked and I did. He also took his clothes off. He then touched my breasts with ointment. I remember pointing at his body and asking ‘what’s that’ and he said it was an erection. I didn’t understand what was going on but felt uncomfortable and said I didn’t like this. He said ok and everything stopped and I went back to my room. It was never mentioned again. I never felt truly comfortable with my brother again and distanced myself from him completely in my twenties. I once tried to mention it to a counsellor but they said brothers and sisters got up to all sorts and not to read into it.

I haven’t spoken to my brother for thirty years, partly due to not wanting him around my daughters.

It’s preying on my mind now. What was that all about? Our family was very dysfunctional with alcoholic parents so I know my brother struggled being the oldest and had a hard time of it. Was this him acting out?

Please be kind if you reply. I’m very confused. Apologies if this is triggering for anyone. I don’t know myself what is was.

To add, he had a horrible childhood and would try to step in to protect me and tried to kill himself with an overdose age 17. This is one of the reasons I’ve never said anything as I think he would hurt himself. He’s married now but never had any children.

Good grief, this is true. I’m not sure how I prove it. MN will see I’m a long time member.

Really? I didn’t.

This is just like when I told the counsellor. It was an immediate shut down and move on.

I can manage this now as a grown woman but I do genuinely look back and think, what on earth was that all about? There is a level of shame talking about it as our family was so odd anyway and I’ve always craved to be ‘normal’ so reluctant to speak to friends about it as it is so weird.

If MN see this and want to delete it, fine. But it’s something I’ve always wanted someone to look at dispassionately and say whether it was abuse. I think not, maybe? Just two very unfortunate kids stumbling about in an odd family but want to know the views of others.

I wonder if calling Childline will help? They hear stuff like this all the time and can help you put some context to it, and they're clued up regarding age context stuff. And/or try another therapist, who can believe you and talk through it with. It's complicated as he had power being 2 years older but he was also a child in an abusive family. The one positive I'd suggest is that you said out loud you were uncomfortable and it stopped. Focusing on yourself, tuning into yourself may be your best way forward?
But all the best, not easy dealing with this x

Thank you for replying. Part of me wants to leave the box on this closed as I’ve a good life and settled, but there is another part that just thinks ‘in a very weird family with no boundaries and odd behaviour, that was still out there weird’. I knew not to mention it as what would be the point. I was always so much stronger than him and clawed my way out of our hometown and situation but he always struggled.

It could have been abuse or a human sacrifice, both of which he must have learnt from someone/somewhere.

That leaves the questions of either who did that to him or who allowed someone else to do that to him.

I don’t think it was that. We were quite an insular family and our parents didn’t really engage etc as so out of it. I reckon it was more that he looked at occult stuff as a young teenager for whatever reason and tried something out.

We were literally left to our own devices to bring ourselves up, there was very little structural normality that it’s hard to explain to people who haven’t experienced it how things just weren’t questioned. My own children wouldn’t even know how to make sense of any of my childhood, thank goodness.

I have absolutely no doubt about what you're describing, OP, what you went through. I'm sorry it happened to you and I can believe how much it has confused you and lingered, unresolved, in your memory to this day. It was understandably alarming at the time and, as a previous poster has said, some intuitive part of you knew it was wrong and was able to assert your boundaries with your brother. Even so, one of the consequences over time is likely to have been nagging questions around the incestuous tone of what your brother did, and I can imagine that still plays on your mind in some unsettling way. I hope there'll be others replying here who can offer more insight or reassurance. Your empathy for your brother's troubled life is admirable, but your main priority has to be your own capacity to come to terms with what you've suffered as a result of not just that particular experience but also the neglect perpetrated by your parents. 💐

I am sorry that this happened to you. Please seek the support of specialised services. Unfortunately in a space like this I am concerned that it will be difficult to get helpful advice and people doubting your trauma will cause you emotional distress.

at 13 he should have known better, you spoke up and he did stop that’s good.
movies sometimes have really weird scenes, as do books where he could have gotten ideas from.
some kids are just stupid, forcing siblings or friends to eat crackers with poop on them, forcing someone to smell their farts, and yes showing off erections.
it’s sad you couldn’t tell a trusted parent at the time, and a professional didn’t engage.
ideally would you like to ask your brother about this, or tell your mom or other siblings?
oddly i don’t think this type of scenario is that unusual where there is little parental oversight.

This was not just siblings horsing around. I have a 12 year old boy who would never do this in any universe. I could also bet my life savings my 10 year old boy wouldn’t do this.

Heck my 6 year old son would know this is wrong!!!

Your brother was clearly messed up, however this is no excuse to SA you.

The scenario sounds far-fetched, so I can understand PP's disbelief. However SA under any circumstances is abnormal. To OP I'm sorry this happened to you, perhaps you need to seek another therapist or advice from a rape crisis centre to see how best to handle this.

Sorry to have doubted you op.
Some strange topics come up late at night.
Yours is a very disturbing one no wonder it's hard to make sense of it.

Thanks to everyone who has commented and I absolutely understand how people could think it’s invented. It is strange. To caveat this happened a long time ago, late seventies, and maybe it was the time of certain heavy metal music or Hammer Horror films etc that influenced him. My instinct is to put this away again as I have a happy life and, apart from my brother who lives quite a distance away, all the wider family are dead. Parents died a long time ago having lived wretched lives and I suspect my brother is in a similar state. It’s strange how you can compartmentalise things that happen to cope and move on. One of my happiest times was my daughter saying how boringly reliable and normal me and her dad are, just calm and plodding along with a stable home life. I’m not looking to disrupt that so I’ll draw a line under this. It has been very helpful though just saying it out loud, if you see what I mean. Thanks again everyone.

Child on child SA is very common. Personally I don't think an adult should be judge on singular "minor offences" as a child. I do think this is why kids should have alot more sexual education, openness and understanding of consent from a young age. When you make it something secret, shameful, unspoken then they try to get understanding in their own ways.

I'd say he probably watched something he shouldn't have done and had no one to talk to about it so acted it out.

You were only 2 years younger than him, he was still quite young and he stopped when you said you didn't like it. I don't think it implies he's a paedophile, I think he was a confused boy.