Religious funerals - possible TW

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My friend is Muslim and has sadly just lost a family member. The funeral was held the next day and it got me thinking about the practicalities of it. I know that Jewish people also have funerals held very quickly. I'm genuinely curious to know how everything is organised, both from a legal point of view and getting friends and family together.
Every funeral I've been to (which have not been for Muslim or Jewish people) take a couple of weeks as a minimum to get sorted. It seems so long to wait sometimes, so why don't all funerals get organised more quickly?

Sorry if it's a morbid or sensitive subject. I hope it doesn't upset it offend anyone x

I think burials speed up the process. I know when my mum died we were told that delays were caused by needing to wait for a slot at the crematorium.

Muslim funerals consist of short prayer - so there's nothing to plan in terms of music, readings etc. Food is always relatively simple (eg rice/dhal/meat) that can be cooked in bulk (will be catered). There's usually a volunteer at the mosque who coordinates funerals and can help families arrange everything.

Where I live funerals are generally held just a few days after the death, and I think the UK way of holding them weeks later is odd.

Most Jews belong to a burial society through their synagogue. When they die someone simply phones and the burial society come and collect the body and the funeral is usually arranged for the next day. We all accept that not everyone can get to the funeral on such short notice but as we sit shiva (mourning) for up to 7 days there are plenty of opportunities for people to visit and give their condolences. I’ve know people come to the cemetery but then go back to the office. The coffin is provided by the burial society, we don’t have flowers, and the service is always the same. So there is very little to arrange and kosher delis/ bakeries are used to providing platters of food at short notice. We also have a service a year later when we commemorate the gravestone and that usually has a large attendance. I should also add that Registrars are usually very helpful in issuing death certificates. I hope this helps explain things.

In the Catholic country I live in, the wake normally happens the day after the death and the funeral the day after that, both in churches. I also find the speed mind boggling! I don't know how it's possible to do so much organisation in such a short time.
The funerals themselves are generally much simpler than UK ones though, follow a pretty standard religious format and don't have the personal touches that would be normal at a UK one. I don't know what happens when a non religious person dies - (thankfully) I've never yet experienced that situation.

Thanks for the replies. So are there people at mosques and synagogues who help to get everything organised so quickly? When my Mum died (as an old lady and of natural causes) it took several days just to get the death certificate issued - are there people who can speed these legal matters up?

And do the Muslim and Jewish funerals have a smaller congregation? It seems that funerals are often delayed to allow for family to travel from around the world to attend - is it just accepted that people can't attend?

This was explained really well. My uncle is religious so when my grandmother died I missed the whole thing as I’m an immigrant and the funeral was less than 24 hours after she died. It’s a specific service so not like there are lots of decisions to make. On a practical level it’s meant to be a simple casket that will decompose and no extras so a quick burial is important as there’s no embalming etc.

Thanks. Seems to me that the rest of our society could learn a thing or two - sometimes we wait a month for the funeral service, and that seems wrong to me on so many levels!

What happens if a postmortem is required for a Jewish or Muslim person, for example if they are randomly selected?

I’ve always wondered this too about postmortems?

Hi all,

I am Muslim. I would just like to say that in the Islamic faith it is stipulated that the burial should take place as soon as possible and should not be delayed for reasons such as waiting for relatives to travel etc. Obviously if a post mortem is to take place then we have to wait for that to be concluded.

Where I live in the UK there are systems in place between the representatives at the mosques and the registrar which means that the paperwork gets sorted pretty quickly. The representatives at the mosque do a pretty good job of guiding the family on what to do.

Food etc is usually sorted by extended family members or the mosque and the actual funeral prayer and ceremony is very short and simple.

We have a 3 day mourning period where people can come and pay their respects and in my experience most people do tend to come on the day the burial takes place as the actual funeral prayer is seen to be quite scared. Most funerals I've been to have had over 100 people in attendance and I think this is because we do tend to have larger families and strong community links.

I think the answer is simply that we make it a lot more complicated than it needs to be, when it could be a simple life transition. In (white Christian) British culture, that lull between death and burial is long because there are backlogs and we overthink it and there is room for a lot of family drama. It’s an incredibly stressful time and it could be a lot less stressful.

In my country (Ireland) the funeral generally takes place about three days after the death. It may be delayed slightly if there's a close family member living abroad, to give them time to get home. To us it seems really odd to have a family member die and then have a to wait a month or so for the funeral and burial. And I'm sure our way seems equally odd to those of you used to waiting several weeks.

How does it work? You immediately start ringing around family and friends, to let them know. You contact the priest immediately and you also contact the funeral home. When my Mam died, the lady from the funeral home was amazing. She gently reminded us about things we might have overlooked. Between them, you work out the funeral arrangements. The funeral home take the details and make arrangements to put a death notice in the newspaper and also on rip.ie (website for death notifications). My parents had already purchased a double grave, so we just had to phone the graveyard to notify them that we would need to have the grave dug on x date.

The family and friends you have notified will check rip.ie for the funeral arrangements, so you don't have to contact them again to let them know the arrangements. Everyone knows that the funeral will take place quite quickly after the death. Funerals are open to all here - it's not like the UK where it seems to be invitation only (or at least, that seems to be the case in England). In some rural areas, the death notices are read out on the radio.

You choose a pub for the obligatory soup and sandwiches for the mourners for after the funeral.

You choose family members to do readings or prayers, contact them to ask if they're willing to do the reading/prayer and then arrange to have copies of the prayers available for them on the day, to take up on the altar.

You choose gifts to bring up to the altar. These are usually related to the deceased members' interests and hobbies e.g. a jersey (if the person played a sport or followed a team), an instrument (if they played music), a handbag (if they were into fashion), a family photo (to represent their love for their children or grandchildren etc.). You choose family members or friends to carry the gifts up to the altar. When the gifts are being brought up to the altar, the priest will say a sentence or two to explain their significance.

One family member is chosen to do the eulogy at the end of the mass (assuming the priest allows it - some priests don't) and will usually spend a bit of time writing the eulogy or writing notes to help them.

Some families have a wake. The body is on display in the coffin in the house and friends/families call in, to say their last farewells to the deceased before the coffin is sealed. The family have to shop for tea, coffee, sandwich ingredients, cake etc. and prepare sandwiches for an army of mourners who are likely to call to the house. The extended family and neighbours often help with this - neighbours will send up trays or tins of sandwiches. Friends and neighbours will also help to wash up (the cups and plates will be in constant circulation - no time to put the dishwasher on) and may be called upon to nip to the shops if milk or sandwich ingredients are running low. There may be set hours for callers to the house - this will be specified in the death notice. If the family don't want any callers to the house, this will also be stated in the death notice.

The period between the death and the funeral is an intense period of activity. If you're working, your employer will understand that you won't be back at work until the funeral is over. It's not uncommon to take a week or two off if a close family member has died - a few days Compassionate Leave and a few days of Annual Leave tagged on. You won't have time to really register the loss or start to grieve until the funeral is over.

In Ireland we also have a tradition of the 'Month's Mind' - a month after the death the regular Sunday (or vigil) Mass in the church where the funeral was held will include prayers for the departed, and family or friends who couldn't get to the funeral within the 2-3 days available come, and often go for a meal later and do all the catching-up. In fact, I'm sure some determined secularists skip the church service and go straight on to the meal, but it's quite usual to have an extra 50 or 60 people in church for the MM.

Speaking from a vicar's perspective...
I would generally be able to fit in a funeral within a week of death as long as the certificate has been granted and the family are happy to fit into my schedule of when i have space both in my diary and the church. However, often the death isn't certified for 10 days so they get booked for a couple of weeks after death to be sure the certificate has arrived in time. It also has to fit around a local venue having space for a wake.
If a person is to be cremated there can be a 3-4 week wait for the crematorium. This can be made longer because families often want funerals on a Friday so people travelling for a long distance don't need as many days off work. So to get a Friday slot people have to wait.
In the summer I am often asked to book a funeral a month away as family have holiday booked and want the funeral after it.

No they’re not smaller. The community tends to be in the major cities. London Leeds Manchester and people are so used to funerals being the next day that if they live abroad they’ll get on the fist flight back. Occasionally you may delay the funeral by another day if someone needs to get there. Funerals are often quite large. From start to finish they’re usually no more than about 45 minutes including the burial. People come as they are, we don’t tend to wear black, so you’ll see people in jeans etc. unless you’re very close to the family you’ll also just go for the funeral and not back to the house afterwards so I can easily use my lunch hour for a funeral.

As a previous poster said, the delis also have a smooth operation and can get you funeral food with a couple of hours notice. People then tend to come to shiva (prayers) which are usually at 8pm for a week (some people do less, our family does 3 nights) and pay respects then too especially if they can’t make a funeral.

If someone is religious they would likely refuse an optional autopsy but if legally required (or probably for something like family health) then you’d just have to tell everyone it’s a Jewish burial and to do the best you can to speed up anything possible. Obviously you can’t break the law, you just have to do the best you can within it.

My family isn’t religious so we’d relax some of this - we all live far apart so we’d prioritise waiting 1-2 days to be together, that sort of thing. It’s obviously all optional and each liberal or conservative rabbi and community will have their own traditions. But an orthodox community will be very specific and would have someone at their synagogue who can deal with these sorts of legal issues.

Thanks all, it's been really interesting to read the different ways we have of dealing with funerals x

Really interesting thread, thank you.

I live in rural Scotland, where funerals tend to be a week or so after someone dies. Mainly due to waiting for family to arrive, rather than delays due to paperwork, undertaker or church.

The Church of Scotland seems pretty laid back compared to other religions (a Minister can legally marry you anywhere - up a hill, on a beach, Church, hotel etc - no need for a separate civil ceremony). The same with a funeral, a Minister or Church elders can lead a service in Church, at a hotel, at the graveside, or anywhere for ashes to be scattered.

Everyone in the community turns out for a local funeral. Some people only go to the church, some only to the graveside or the wake, some to all. There is still a tradition of women not attending the graveside but that is less common now.

Death certs can be very slow in the uk.

when my dad died we had to apply continuous pressure and drive between places to facilitate it being issued - lots of family were already in the uk from New Zealand and we wanted a quick funeral and honestly it was like nailing jelly to a wall.

In Ireland there's always wriggle room for a delayed funeral such as per the deceased's request. My mum, Catholic, wanted to wait five days for us to get there - her request was a year before she died.

The funeral home was brilliant and her body and coffin was brought back less than a day after her death.

We have months mind but also a Christmas celebration for those who died during the year. So lovely and a candle is brought up to the altar and available to watch online. I also received a card even though I live in England.

I deal with this at work. Religious paperwork for death has a specific order. We try and get it done asap. I have had protons though with families calling me and shouting at me for not providing it quick enough and I have on 2 occasions had male family members try to physically take a bid from a ward and have had to phone the police.
I’ve had families telling me the body is booked on a flight that night.
I usually ask the Imam to come in and try and smooth it over.
Can cause issues.

This is a relatively recent pattern in the uk, growing up funerals were usually three days after a death. People tended to live closer to family and friends, Graveyards and cemeteries were more local than crematoria, usually would be a local priest or minister, local bakers etc were used to catering, funerals were pretty standardised. The gap between death and funeral is a very odd period nowadays.