Lindsay clancy trial

[Widowwith2]

Has anyone else been following the lindsay clancy trial? What is everyone thinkin? I dont think she done it

Jury is still deadlocked. Have had the TR charge read to them.

Yep and I cant see them changing now. It will be a mistrial and possibly a re trial?

Seems that way.

Well she is responsible for their deaths. I guess its a moral question - is she not guilty because of the psychosis? Hmmm well Cleary she is mentally unwell, and its very sad. I think going for a first degree murder charge is belt and braces - and i think eventually she will end up in a hospital for a long time which is probably best for herself.

Although I dont believe it was actuallt psychosis and that she did have some capacity(although was clearly mentally unwell.). I do believe that a psych hospital for a long time is a more appropriate sentence.

I’m only just following the case now. Is she still deemed mentally unwell now? Is that why she would go to a psychiatric hospital?

She is still on a 1-1 suicide risk - but I don't know if that's the only reason she's still there or if there's other things at play

I'm honestly really shocked that people's first thoughts wouldn't be the safety of their children, given the situation – that their DW has tried to kill herself at a time that she's alone in the house with the children. That to me says 'murder-suicide' in glaring neon lights, as otherwise the person committing suicide would be much more likely to do so away from the house, or while the children were out.

Standing around outside, unable to do anything to help while waiting for an ambulance, unaware of whether the children were alive, dead, or in imminent danger, is the last thing I'd do. My husband/wife isn't my priority in that situation, my kids are.

It's bizarre, detached behaviour on the husband's part imo, but then I suppose perhaps he's one of those people who does react badly to shock, and just stands around uselessly in a crisis.

I googled this earlier in the week and the test is "dangerousness" not sanity. And the courts take a very conservative view of dangerousness and the burden of proof is on the killer.

If she's NGRI then drawback of being determined to be psychotic is that she can't say "I only killed my own kids who I had access to so I'm safe" becaise the response would be "You were randomly psychotic for a short period so there's no way to know who you would or wouldn't kill if it comes back in future.".

It's Catch 22. If she's guilty it's life without parole, if it's NGRI she's saying "My brain is broken in such a way that I kill people out of the blue, just after I've appeared normal and arranged a family meal."

If she's NGRI nobody is going to risk their job signing her off as safe any time soon because there's no way to tell if she is safe.

This is such a sad case. I have to say I thought the jury would lean towards the not guilty by reason of insanity verdict based on what we have heard. She will be locked up anyway due to the risk of psychosis.

You are right . I don’t know why I thought that . There was very little media coverage of the Deirdre Morley case in the same way as far as I recall. I don’t remember a massive was she or wasn’t she guilty thing in the media the way there is about this case . It’s actually quite chilling the similarities between the 2 cases

He’s good at standing around uselessly if you look at videos of their family outings
He also was listened to by too many professionals with “ Patrick said “ opinion that she wasn’t bi polar which was taken as correct by a psychiatrist without a clear diagnosis.

Patrick then let the nanny go when his wife was clearly drowning on and on with the uselessness till his poor wife became more and more unwell in front of his eyes whilst he continued brunches with friends , skiing, marathon running as his priority. Useless could be his middle name.

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Jesus. Thats chilling. And actually very very good.

Yikes. There was a case during Covid in my country in which the husband was incredibly useless too, pressuring and not supporting his wife, who clearly wasn't coping. I wonder if it's a pattern; men who are entitled and selfish, and insist on doing what they want while their wives fall apart and into psychosis, and then kill the children.

I suppose being a useless prick who leaves your mentally unstable wife to carry the domestic load isn't a criminal offence, though.

Some of the conspiracy theories seem almost plausible given his behaviour, but I have to think if she had any doubt at all that she did it, she would fight the accusation.

I suspect it didn't get publicity because there was no debate. She had a long history of psychosis - she was very obviously NGRI.

In contrast people can debate this case ad infinitum. Even the jury can't agree.

Mumsnet never fails to deliver! 🤣

This lady also had a long history of mental health difficulties. Who on earth who was in the full of their mental health would do such a thing and then jump of a building rendering themselves disabled for life

What's so funny?

Bad mental health isn't the legal test. If it was she'd be clearly not guilty. The problem with that is you'd be legalising murder for the mentally ill, which would be the vast majority of murderers, because sane, well adjusted people rarely kill people.

In the states the M'Naghten Rule are the test. The UK has something similar, presumably everywhere does.

Yes but I’m not privy to Deirdre Morley’s or Lindsay Clancys medical records nor is anyone else . This trial is being too heavily covered and taken apart by the media that is a fact . It’s not fair for all involved regardless of whether she is guilty or innocent.

Yes, its 100% not fair. Especially since it seems highly likely to me that the drugs she was prescribed made her mad enough to kill her kids but (IMHO) not the right kind of mad to be found not guilty of doing it. It's not reported but the NGRI defence includes involuntary intoxication. But the test for involuntary intoxication is the same -M'Naghten.

So let that sink in. You can secretly give me a drug that makes me desperately want to kill my kids. But as long as that drug doesn't obscure my perception that killing my kids is wrong I'm still guilty. I can understand why it has to be that way, but jeeze....

But then mental illness isn't fair, whether it's caused by pure chance or by crap doctors decisions.

Oh so you're now remembering that PC has filed a lawsuit against the doctors that treated his ex wife LC? Not so useless after all...

Is that aimed at me? You reckon I've said LC was useless?

He told the docs the drugs made her 10,000 times worse. Apparently the correct response would have been to stop them - seemigly SSRIs have a terrible effect in some people.

TBH critising the partners of family annihilators seems weird in the extreme, but then this is mumsnet.

Man or woman, all I'm saying is that it's very weird to me that a parent wouldn't immediately be struck by terror that their deeply mentally unstable partner might have killed the children or left them in danger before trying to commit suicide, and would hang about waiting for the ambulance rather than checking on them.
It doesn't seem natural to me at all as a mother.

I love my DH dearly, but if I'd been confronted by him in the same position LC had been in, in the same situation, then I would've left him bleeding on the lawn without a backwards glance in my haste to make sure the children were alright.