Lindsay clancy trial

[Widowwith2]

Has anyone else been following the lindsay clancy trial? What is everyone thinkin? I dont think she done it

The prosecution witnesses have been doing an excellent job for the defense so far. Not sure if summaries will happen today. Though the judge did say that it would be a very long day.

Defense case has finished and the prosecution has brought on a psychiatrist who seems to be out of his depth.

Lots of "I don't know" "don't necessarily think".

Even if she receives a NGRI verdict she could still end up locked away in a secure unit for the rest of her life. So either way, she's going to a jail of sorts.

So a mental illness treatment facility is just like being in jail?

No wonder people mask their illness when that's the public attitude.

I have no idea what it is like inside them, but there are swathes of cases where people in America committed serious crimes whilst seriously unwell and are spending the rest of their lives in a psychiatric facility. Andrea Yates was found NGRI in early 2000s and is still in a psyc unit, not that dissimilar to this case, she drowned her children in a postnatal psychosis. The Laney case too, again, killed her children during a psychotic episode and spent i think 10 years in a psychiatric unit. I believe the laws were changed after Ronald Reagan was shot.

Andrea Yates is slightly different - she is eligible for release but she refuses it every time.

My understanding is that it's not dissimilar to being sent to Broadmoor in the UK

So summary of either defense or prosecution - the prosecution will go first on the summary - will be on Monday. There's extra cross questioning of the psychiatrist brought back by the prosecution, (who I surmise is the worst witness ever), by the defense to take place before that.

The judge keeps stipulating that the court case on on time.

Can anyone help me with the prosecution psychiatrist's name? Is it Dr Mack?

Edit: to make sense.

I think it's something like Resnick?

I heard an american lawyer talking about what a terrible witness was-never made eye contact with the jury-only looked at prosecutor etc

Apparently you are meant to talk directly to the jurors and try and gain their sympathy and he was just awful (I haven't seen it-just what this other lawyer said about him and the prosecutions job overall)
The prosecutor is meant to prep and instruct their witnesses to make a favourable impression.

Resnick, criminal psychologist, was for the defense.

The prosecution brought in a Dr Mack after Resnick's testimony and cross questioning.

Edit Resnick's testimony was via zoom

Dr Mack(?) said umm, um, um, I don't know x 3

I honestly think, outside of cases of clear and ongoing violence and neglect, women who kill their children should be a separate category in law. Murder is a broad sledgehammer and does not serve justice well in the nuances.

In some cases 'murder' surely will be applicable, and those can be process accordingly - but I'd argue in the majority of cases it isn't. Women who kill is one thing, women who kill their children is an entirely different ball game and we need to treat it as such. Prison terms and all this talk of 'punishment' only makes the general population feel better, it doesn't apply fair justice in a huge section of these cases.

"I honestly think, outside of cases of clear and ongoing violence and neglect, women who kill their children should be a separate category in law. Murder is a broad sledgehammer and does not serve justice well in the nuances.
In some cases 'murder' surely will be applicable, and those can be process accordingly - but I'd argue in the majority of cases it isn't. Women who kill is one thing, women who kill their children is an entirely different ball game and we need to treat it as such."

Plenty of fathers have killed their family whether it be because of financial ruin, breakdown of relationship, cheating or mental illness. No one would ever excuse it or minimise it or expect special treatment in law etc even though most fathers could not imagine doing the same.

This woman strangled 3 people but because they are her own children you think this should be some sort of mitigating factor?

I agree there has to be a trial as there would be in any case. What is needed is far better pre and post natal care, and for women's health to be taken seriously. Children over the age of 1 are more likely to be killed by their father. Children aged 1 or under, there is a more equal split. I think that is extremely telling.

Plenty of fathers have killed their family

That's why I said mothers. Mothers are not fathers.

This woman strangled 3 people but because they are her own children you think this should be some sort of mitigating factor?

Yes, that's why I said it.

"This woman strangled 3 people but because they are her own children you think this should be some sort of mitigating factor?
Yes, that's why I said it."

The fact that she is on trial for murder, means that saner minds prevail. People who kill their children are still murderers even if mentally ill at the time, irrespective of whether they have a penis or vagina.

Yes currently they are, but only because the justice system as it is lacks the nuance to discern further. That's kind of my point.

Men and women are different. The psychology between them is different. The dynamics between mothers and their children vs women and strangers is different. You want to lump them all together and use the same flat thinking for all, I don't. That's what discussing forums are for.

"You want to lump them all together and use the same flat thinking for all, I don't. That's what discussing forums are for."

It seems to me that nuance in this case implies a more compassionate or lesser sentence because she is a woman.

If there is any nuance it should be harsher. She is triple murder and her crime is more heinous. She has caused harm to her own children, her ex-husband and both extended families.

No one says well men have more testosterone so they can't help bring more aggressive...

I was so shocked to hear she manages to use exercise bands even now.
This woman’s a complete psycho
All her notes and journals were about how parenting affects HER

I'll leave you to your opinions

So now women should get a free pass for murder because it’s their children they’re murdering and because they’re women?

And people wonder why misogyny is a thing? Hardly surprising when there are people out there who think that women are a separate species when it comes to murder.

Murder is murder, regardless of who it is you’re killing.

And you only have to look at the relationships boards to see how many horrendously abusive and awful mothers there are out there, it just so happens that some of them go as far as murder.

Do men suffer from post natal psychosis?

Well, they would be, wouldn’t they? They were supposed to be personal. Her personal ramblings. I don’t imagine she’d find them being read out loud to all and everyone.

I do think she is very mentally unwell, which explains why she continues to use exercise bands. Anyone of sound mind wouldn’t want to touch them, surely.

They can suffer with any sort of mental illness following the birth of a child and the difficulties raising a child can sometimes trigger it, the same way it can do for women. The difference is that there is a real hormonal element in it for women where the drop in oestrogen and instability of hormones following birth - even months later - can cause physiological changes in a woman’s body that can lead to clinical depression and psychosis in situations where women would otherwise not have these issues. So it’s not the same thing. At all. It’s often driven by hormonal factors. Men do not have these factors, obviously.

Women can get pre natal psychosis as well. Unfortunately/fortunately there's two times this happens. Early in the 2nd trimester and the only cure is an abortion, otherwise the result is likely suicide - the baby is going to kill the mother and these thoughts are all consuming. Extreme and thankfully rare, but it accelerates quickly within weeks. Mother recovers almost immediately post abortion.

2nd is the third trimester which has a better outcome, psychosis also develops quickly as well. A C section is given and mother and baby do well after.

Obviously it's an anxious and frightening time for both parents.

A man will never suffer from post partum psychosis.

I think she’s a narcissist. Her talk of wanting to become an advocate for PPP and do a wheelchair marathon etc

She loves attention