‘Putting money aside for care’: how much?

[Wofflewaffle]

In a few posts recently posters have said something to the effect of ‘we’ve put money and for old age / care needs’. Usually it’s a thread about wills, financial decisions in later life, whether to give money to adult children etc

i always wonder how they can know or guess what money might be needed for old age / care needs. 🤷‍♀️

MIL went into a nursing home for 4.5 years before she died. It was £1800 per week, so a total cost of £421,000 or thereabouts. (This was paid by the tax payer as she was not self funding).

Are people really putting this kind of money aside to cover potential care needs?

I’ve spoken with my own parents about this a few times as they are approaching the same age, and they seem baffled by the idea that care costs could be so high 🤷‍♀️

if you have ‘put money aside’ how much have you budgeted, and what did you base your calculations on?

I have considered this.

at the moment about one in four adults
spends time in a care home before end of life.
home care is significantly cheaper than care home.

average length of stay in a care home is three years but that covers a lot of range from under three weeks to ten years plus.

I am already disabled and have support at home mostly through having a cleaner and wheelchair/motability car etc. so I don’t really expect to be transitioning to a care home because my home is unsuitable for someone with limited mobility because I already have limited mobility.

i’ve broadly assigned the value of my home for care fees - if I need to go into a care home my house will be sold and then that should get me at current rates two years of funding.

there’s a few care homes in my town and I do know some of the residents - some of the long term ones are actually my sort of age and level of mobility and have been in a care home for a long time because they rented their home and couldn’t make adaptions for wheelchair etc.

When I talk to my parents, they are very much focused on the likely costs of buying / moving to a more suitable house, or adapting their current home. They really don’t contemplate the possibility that they will have to go into residential care - and the potential cost of this. So that isn’t what they are budgeting for.

@Octavia64 do you have children? I keep getting thrown because my parents clearly expect my sister and I to inherit - but if they end up in a situation similar to MIL, there will be nothing to leave! It makes me wonder if people generally underestimate the cost of care.

I think a lot of people mean care in terms of a cleaner, gardner, hairdresser that comes to the home, taxis to hospital appointments, some home adaptions and someone who comes in and gets you up and puts you to bed. They dont necessarily mean 10 years worth of dementia nursing home feees.

Although I suspect there will be some wealthy people who do put aside some before giving gifts, because deprivation of assets isnt allowed.

I do think people underestimate the cost of nursing home care and dont realise its not part of the nhs so you pay

My relative has age concern come do thier lunch and its £17 plus the cost of the meal. Thats cost is subsidised by the charity.

When DPs moved into the care home, I needed to demonstrate that they each had enough to cover two years of care - so around £400k. Fortunately DPs are financially well off so have this, even without including the value of their property which made things a lot quicker to get them in.

However what they steadfastly refused to do - to be fair both have dementia and it’s hard to know when it started- was make any sensible adaptations like a walk in shower, or pay for additional home support that may have allowed them to live at home for longer.

So yes having savings to make life comfortable and not relying on your working adult DCs to do it is important, if you can. Obviously not everyone has the money.

To add I think very few people expect to need a care home. DF fully expected to die many years ago - he’s 92, and DM probably expected not to have dementia and be bedridden at 87 as she comes from a fairly healthy lineage. Realistically nobody wants to end up in a care home, but flu vaccinations, annual covid jabs, aggressive treatment of cancer etc for the very elderly has resulted in this situation.

I think people do totally misunderstand and also care needs can be very specific so it’s hard to plan. I also think there is an assumption that if you get some kind of terrible disease the NHS will somehow be involved so will be free. I think the divide between social care and the health service is not understood widely at all.

My Mum sadly has a terrible rare degenerative illness and has twice daily care visits. She needs more but my Dad and her have to pay so it’s similar to having a child in nursery in terms of the monthly cost - so whilst not care home fees it is not a small amount. Then they do have a cleaner, gardener etc etc as well. I know their savings are depleting fast.

No, I have savings but they are general for anything that might crop up, though that could be for care, new roof, private medicine, holiday, etc. it will probably just be the money that is in the house value that will be used if needed, there are no specific extra funds, I'm late 60s, both mine and DH parents are dead, none needed any care.

Tbh too busy trying to afford the day to day to save for this

I think my view of this has been influenced by MIL situation. She’s the first of that generation to decline and die in our family, and her condition advanced quite quickly / we were very unprepared and didn’t adapt quickly enough (Parkinson’s, osteoporosis, dementia). FIL did get a walk-in shower installed - but by the time he did, she couldn’t use it. They refused carers, adaptations like a frame / rolling tray weren’t used (except to put pot plants on). By the time she went into nursing care, she was fully immobile, doubly incontinent, uncommunicative. So there was no gradual transition. I’m reassured I guess to hear that her pathway was not the norm.

My thinking on this has been to have a big enough pension to basically fund any kind of care I need.

Given the costs now this is probably unrealistic, but should at least pay a big chunk of it.

Otherwise I assume it would come from the value of my home.

It’s a too huge sum of money to have separate savings for ‘just in case’ IMO.

@Wofflewaffle There was a gradual decline but they didn’t respond to it. That’s often the issue. We noticed a friend had issues and that is Parkinson’s dementia. It was self evident there were needs but his wife soldiers on. They have belatedly moved into a bungalow but it needs adaptations and he’s still having falls. His needs have been obvious for 3 years. People are stubborn and don’t plan.

Home costs are high but most don’t go into homes. Planning for 10 years in a home is almost impossible but most people don’t spend even 2. So have the money for 2 years is a start but getting very old costs money!

My observation from my own DPs and many of my friends is they avoid making the adaptations or getting in the home care for whatever reason and this hastens the need for them to go into a care home as their house is not suitable and their relatives cannot meet their growing needs without giving up their jobs and their own lives. It’s so sad to watch and impossible to manage as the adult DC.

MIL spent the last three years in residential care with vascular dementia and other chronic conditions, and spent all her savings plus half the proceeds of her house on it, so about £400k. We sold her house to pay for her care and I was her administrator.

DF is 92 and very confused but is immaculately cared for by his much younger second wife.

DM died suddenly in her sleep at 89 but lived independently to the very end, with a little help from family, mainly lifts to the supermarket and jobs involving ladders.

We shall have the value of our house to fund care needed, plus anything we haven't spent.

I’d rather be put down so either the state will put me down or they’ll pay. I intend on spending every penny I have on a great life, then what will be, will be. I might have a house they can use but I don’t intend on having any liquid assets.

I guess it’s a lottery isn’t it. If you don’t get dementia then barring health catastrophes then it should be ok. We need to have more honest discussions about the ramifications of annual flu and covid jabs, and aggressive health treatments for the elderly. I think both my DPs would have been better served dying after a bout of pneumonia or in DMs case not doing a mastectomy age 80, than the way they are “living” now. It’s all very well keeping people alive, but to do what and who looks after them when very elderly.

This was my mums plan. Unfortunately it didn’t work this way so she lived the high life for twenty years post retirement and is now in her 80’s with very little in the bank.
her care options are limited.
every time she has a fall she and I think the end is nigh, but somehow she rallies and goes on and on.
But she has few regrets

My parents made adaptations to their house thinking this would avoid the need for residential care, they have a stairlift, their house would be suitable for mobililty issues to the extent that a wheelchair user who can walk very short distances or manoeuvre themself from wheelchair to stairlift would have been OK, but sadly DF had a fall and became almost totally paralysed (requiring two person hoist transfers), so there was no option but to move into a home. Fortunately he had saved and invested well enough to cover two years fees - he had a month state funded in a nursing home while his assessments were carried out and the care was great but it was in a very poky home miles from where Mum lives with next to no outdoor space or communal space and he was more or less the only one without advanced dementia (he has no dementia) so he felt isolated. The fact that he had saved allowed us to choose one very close to Mum with much better communal space, a lot more activities and is a big, joint care/nursing home so there are a greater variety of other residents to mix with, mum has made friends with lots of them too as she can walk round there any time.

You can pay for nicer rooms, food, activities, location and all the bells and whistles.

The actual carers though? you just don’t know do you. My sisters were both carers in residential homes. One worked for the council and one in what I would call a basic facilities private one Both of them were excellent at their jobs. In all the things anyone has ever told me about working I remember my sister saying laying out people who had died was a privilege and the last bit of dignity she could offer by doing it with care. You can’t buy that.

@rookiemereI agree completely. However we have a friend who definitly expects the NHS to keep the elderly alive because she’s very poor at accepting death. What people do should be their choice.