Is extending 30 hours childcare to parents on benefits fair?

[GimmieABreakOr3]

30 free hours of childcare to those in receipt of benefits is not fair.

Currently, the 30-hour childcare scheme requires parents to be in work to qualify. However, the UK Education Secretary has called for this to be extended to parents on benefits.

Many argue that those who are unemployed don’t need childcare. I agree. How is it fair that those of us in work are always propping up those who are not? It’s proper two tier Britain if you ask me when it comes to those in work compared to those who are unemployed and on welfare. I think Labour are ruining this country.

I’m a middle earner, but my husband is a higher earner. However, we cannot afford for me to be out of work as I contribute to the mortgage and bills. Childcare would wipe out my salary. How is that fair? I also have a professional registration I have to maintain so can’t afford to give up my career as I’d lose that. Also, given precarious job market, it’s sensible we both remain in work. This is what I mean, it isn’t all rosy. It should just be universal for all if they want to bring it in.

Why are you so fixated on fairness? You sound like a six year old. Life isn't fair. It certainly isn't fair for the children you don't think should be allowed to go to nursery because their parents can't afford it.

I think people should be able to live and work wherever they want to but don't kid yourself that it's not a choice to do so, I chose a house I could afford when thinking of family planning.

It is a choice to have children and I'd hope that people on high wages would be family planning and working out the financials to do so. That's always the argument I see for why we shouldn't help people on benefits, 'they shouldn't have had kids if they can't afford them'. Same logic applies to this, you knew the eligibility for free 30 hours and what your salary is. You could choose to put more into your pension, reduce your working days etc. to get yourself under 100k if you're just over the threshold.

Yep.

I'm sat here thinking the only reason why I don't work and live in a council house is because I have a disabled child. I highly doubt people are actually resentful of that.

@ActuallyComfortable I think what this poster is questioning is why someone who chooses not to work gets all of these things for free?

Your combined income will be huge in this case. It's not just your responsibility to pay for childcare. It is also only for a few years and then they'll be in school.

It’s fair on the children who need equal access to the same opportunities

So just to be clear, you work because you want the better life you have as a result of working, but you simultaneously feel the people who don't work have it better than you?
This all makes perfect sense

It reads a lot like you want the kids of poorer parents to have fewer opportunities than your kids so you can feel like you're winning at life.

Precisely.

All of this talk of “fairness” hits a little differently when you’re surrounded by evidence of how life definitely isn’t fair.

Well, it’s just a shame that there are so many out there that don’t do sensible family planning and yet it’s up to tax payers to bail em out and support them.

Sorry, I don’t think that makes me sound like a 6 year old. Yet again, people resorting to insults on this thread because they have weak arguments and an inability to be reflective and see another point of view.

Sorry but that is life, if you can't afford it then no you can't have it. Unfortunately this seems to have gone by the wayside and everyone is very much want want want want now.
And people are deluded if they think that given this free childcare there will be a rush to the job centre. Of course there won't, there will be even less incentive for them to find work as they are given more rewards for not working!
The whole system is backwards I swear! And don't come at me with "quit your job and go benefits then" as honestly I'm sick to the back teeth of that argument if anyone dares to complain that life is difficult as a worker. Fing joke this country!

To benefit the children.

It isn't also as black and white as not working = choosing not to work.

Agree
and I believe the numbers are rising as they often do after a stint of Labour
They won’t be in for long

Wouldn't it be great if rather than throw out voter frenzy policies Governments actually worked out what makes money

I really do believe if high earners were given free childcare, because actually it generates more tax for the country, some people would still be against it
just because
they don’t want higher earners to benefit from anything for free

Fiscal suicide

@Kirbert2 I don't think posters are saying that. If your child is disabled to the extent that you are unable to work then that is different.
But the reality is that many people choose not to work/be a SAHM.

Education is a public good in and of itself so this policy can’t really be exploited in an economic sense.

Broadening the tax base means that the tax revenue is coming from a greater variety of people rather than it being concentrated amongst a certain group. Income tax decreases as earnings go down, so if the people earning £100k decrease their earnings then tax from that group will go down as a percentage of total tax take. And there will also be additional taxpayers who have been able to enter the workforce as a result of getting childcare.

Absolutely @WimbyAce
Thats the argument they jump to, quit your job and go on benefits street with the rest of them. So childish, and yet I’m referred to as a 6 year old for highlighting the double standards. It’s the responsible and sensible in society that is made to prop up everyone else who want to take, take, take.

I think you sound like a child whining - if you are a middle earner and your husband is a high earner then your combined income is at least 150k a year. If you can't afford childcare and luxuries then you are bad at financial planning and should seek some advice.

You don't do your very well paid job out of a sense of responsibility, you do it because you want the money.

You know you're better off than those on benefits, by a very big margin.

Thank you for explaining. I understand that rationale, however you’ve got to consider that many people out there do not want to work, they want to remain on benefits, and I don’t see how this would actually be successful in practice sadly. I can’t see many people rushing to sort out their CV and apply for jobs or training. I can see them wanting to stay at home with their kids and live an easy lifestyle pottering about doing the school run and going to Lidl. Do you or Labour have an answer for this? There’s a fair bit of benefit abuse out there.

If that child needs 30 hrs of education because mummy and daddy can’t do it - then mummy and daddy need to attend for 30 hours to learn how to provide it. Or be at the job centre for 30 hours, or on a course.
not sitting at home pissing about claiming benefits whilst someone else ‘educates’ their child.

I lose around £25,000 of childcare if I earn a penny over £100k.

I effectively lose money then, until I earn over £155k. And even then, as you can imagine, the gain is minimal…

It’s the most astonishing piece of policy.

The reality is that people lump those on benefits in to one group who are lazy and refuse to work. Is it true in some cases? Of course it is but for many people, it also isn't true because people on benefits are not all the same.

No, it’s not £150k per year actually. Much less.
Id appreciate it if you stopped insulting me. Stop engaging if it annoys you that much or you’ve nothing of value to add rather than resorting to personal attack.

It costs me ~£30,000 now to put one child in nursery.

I have two, so it’s equivalent to almost the entirety of a £100k salary after tax and student loan.

The loss of access to childcare is very significant and has a serious impact on behaviour.

Why should full time working higher rate tax payers not get the benefit when those doing nothing and contributing nothing get this benefit? Maybe if they had to appear at the job centre and physically sit there applying for jobs for 35 hours a week. But until that is a requirement thouse who do nothing can at least parent their children themselves.